4 ms·

Envisioning Development: What is Affordable Housing?

11 points by alexjmann 17y ago

wan23 17y ago
I've been thinking about what would happen if I decided to work on my startup full time in NYC, where I live now, and I always end up thinking that it would be pretty hard to live in that "extremely low income" category. Does anyone have any tips on how to really cut costs? Besides moving somewhere else of course.
- earl 17y ago
  I personally wouldn't live in NYC for less than $80K. Reasons: you'll pay ~$1.5K / mo to live in dumpy but reasonably safe housing with a roommate. That includes utilities which are fucking expensive in NYC. Also, it's humid as hell, so you will use your A/C 5-6 months per year. Make sure you have it. Many apartments come without kitchens or with tiny, dilapidated kitchens. Expect to eat out every meal. The good news is there are lots of places to eat well for $6-$10 per meal. This actually isn't that bad an idea when you look at the exorbitant price of food in NYC. You will pay city tax with a top marginal rate of ~3.5% (IIRC) after about $60K or so of income. My numbers might be a little off but not that far. Basically, if you make about $85K, you'll pay $3+K for the privilege of living in the city. Sales tax is high too -- 9+%. Your apartment will be tiny so you'll hang out with friends in restaurants or bars. You'll be shocked how easy it is to spend $100 on a night out. The only cheap thing in the city is low end food, metro passes, and cab fare. Take advantage of them. Don't have a car -- it cost us $525/mo to park our car in the city, and that's with free dents and attendants who stole all the cables we left in it. The bright side is this: if your expectation of public transit has been set by SF -- where transit is complete shit -- you'll be amazed by the subway. Pay to live near an express stop; it's worth it.
brc 17y ago
It's not the housing that costs. It's the land underneath the housing that is valuable. The reasons are demand and supply. The supply is fixed, the demand can vary greatly for a number of reasons. However, the only way to lower the price to live on that land is to make it in less demand, which means making the area less attractive to live in. Hardly what anyone wants.
- electromagnetic 17y ago
  Agreed, there's lots of 'affordable' housing in areas near me. However, the reason these houses cost so little is because they're in an area with crime rates through the roof. Oddly across the street from many of these houses the properties of similar designs with equal amounts of land costs $100k more. Affordable housing is a noble cause, but just give it to me without it being filled with drug dealers trying to sell to kids.
- lliiffee 17y ago
  You can sort of increase supply by building taller buildings.
  - nazgulnarsil 17y ago
    zoning prevents the market from meeting demand properly. the justification is preventing externalities such as turning what was a nice small town into a condo complex etc. but the citizens who want to keep it a small town shouldn't do so at the end of a gun (legislation), if they want it they should pay for it.
    - evgen 17y ago
      The problem with this argument is that the citizens who want to keep a small town small were there first. They created and/or maintain the urban environment that makes the location appealing for the would-be condo builder. As such they have the right to make whatever rules they want within certain limits -- think of it as a "private" club that has a specific membership requirement (you must live within the prescribed boundaries to join.) If I join your club I should expect to abide by the rules set by the members according to the process that existed when I joined, just because I think the walls of the clubhouse should be painted blue doesn't mean that I can decide on a whim paint a small part of the wall. If the condo-builder wants to create a building as tall as he wants then he should find some piece of land that does not have restrictions attached to it, build his condo, and see if the people come... Zoning restrictions are a part of the market. If it were not for the restrictions the land would have a different value. Part of what makes a piece of property valuable are the side-effects of these very restrictions.

11 points by alexjmann 17y ago

wan23 17y ago

I've been thinking about what would happen if I decided to work on my startup full time in NYC, where I live now, and I always end up thinking that it would be pretty hard to live in that "extremely low income" category. Does anyone have any tips on how to really cut costs? Besides moving somewhere else of course.

earl 17y ago
I personally wouldn't live in NYC for less than $80K. Reasons: you'll pay ~$1.5K / mo to live in dumpy but reasonably safe housing with a roommate. That includes utilities which are fucking expensive in NYC. Also, it's humid as hell, so you will use your A/C 5-6 months per year. Make sure you have it. Many apartments come without kitchens or with tiny, dilapidated kitchens. Expect to eat out every meal. The good news is there are lots of places to eat well for $6-$10 per meal. This actually isn't that bad an idea when you look at the exorbitant price of food in NYC. You will pay city tax with a top marginal rate of ~3.5% (IIRC) after about $60K or so of income. My numbers might be a little off but not that far. Basically, if you make about $85K, you'll pay $3+K for the privilege of living in the city. Sales tax is high too -- 9+%. Your apartment will be tiny so you'll hang out with friends in restaurants or bars. You'll be shocked how easy it is to spend $100 on a night out. The only cheap thing in the city is low end food, metro passes, and cab fare. Take advantage of them. Don't have a car -- it cost us $525/mo to park our car in the city, and that's with free dents and attendants who stole all the cables we left in it. The bright side is this: if your expectation of public transit has been set by SF -- where transit is complete shit -- you'll be amazed by the subway. Pay to live near an express stop; it's worth it.

brc 17y ago

It's not the housing that costs. It's the land underneath the housing that is valuable. The reasons are demand and supply. The supply is fixed, the demand can vary greatly for a number of reasons. However, the only way to lower the price to live on that land is to make it in less demand, which means making the area less attractive to live in. Hardly what anyone wants.

electromagnetic 17y ago
Agreed, there's lots of 'affordable' housing in areas near me. However, the reason these houses cost so little is because they're in an area with crime rates through the roof. Oddly across the street from many of these houses the properties of similar designs with equal amounts of land costs $100k more. Affordable housing is a noble cause, but just give it to me without it being filled with drug dealers trying to sell to kids.
lliiffee 17y ago
You can sort of increase supply by building taller buildings.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  zoning prevents the market from meeting demand properly. the justification is preventing externalities such as turning what was a nice small town into a condo complex etc. but the citizens who want to keep it a small town shouldn't do so at the end of a gun (legislation), if they want it they should pay for it.
  - evgen 17y ago
    The problem with this argument is that the citizens who want to keep a small town small were there first. They created and/or maintain the urban environment that makes the location appealing for the would-be condo builder. As such they have the right to make whatever rules they want within certain limits -- think of it as a "private" club that has a specific membership requirement (you must live within the prescribed boundaries to join.) If I join your club I should expect to abide by the rules set by the members according to the process that existed when I joined, just because I think the walls of the clubhouse should be painted blue doesn't mean that I can decide on a whim paint a small part of the wall. If the condo-builder wants to create a building as tall as he wants then he should find some piece of land that does not have restrictions attached to it, build his condo, and see if the people come... Zoning restrictions are a part of the market. If it were not for the restrictions the land would have a different value. Part of what makes a piece of property valuable are the side-effects of these very restrictions.