5 ms·

"“I don’t know how many lives will be saved, but probably in the thousands per year when all the companies are in compliance,” Technically that could be 2000 wh

by gmarx 11y ago

"“I don’t know how many lives will be saved, but probably in the thousands per year when all the companies are in compliance,” Technically that could be 2000 which in turn would be out of 380,000 which in turn is at the order of magnitude of statistical blip. That said I'm all for going back to good old fashioned, exists in nature and is yummy saturated fat. Bring back the beef tallow french fries McDonalds! in ten years the FDA will say it's good for us!

jessaustin 11y ago
Bring back the beef tallow french fries McDonalds! You and I and anyone else with tastebuds will appreciate it, but I pity the vegans. Fast food will be completely off-limits.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  Vegans couldn't eat McDonald's french fries anyway. When they switched their fryer oil, they added natural beef flavoring to compensate. I know some vegetarians that were pissed about this when they found out, but McDonald's quite rightly pointed out that they have never, ever attempted to certify any of their menu items as vegetarian or vegan, not even the salads. They leave that up to third parties, and state that they do not strictly enforce efforts to prevent cross contamination from kitchen equipment also used for meat products. It is likely that the only markets in which McDonald's would make more than a token effort to serve vegetarians would be India and select parts of California. Aside from that, I wonder why a vegan would be considering fast food anyway. If you take more than a cursory glance at how such restaurants get their vegetable ingredients, you would see quite a lot of animal cruelty in the form of the institutional working environment for agricultural laborers. The 2001 Yum! Brands boycott, precipitated by tomato pickers in Florida, comes to mind. I pity the vegans because they voluntarily choose a form of asceticism, and are not likely to get any compensatory benefit for doing so. They choose to make their own lives more difficult, just like people who play games with unofficial voluntary conduct challenges. I'm not going to fault them for doing it, but I'm also not going to change my personal opinion that they are at some level just spoiling their own fun just for a few extra millimeters of e-peen.
  - crush_fear_27 11y ago
    >a few extra millimeters of e-peen can you tell me what that means? i honestly can't tell.
    - jessaustin 11y ago
      GP suspects that vegans are only vegan in order to impress others. I disagree, because there are many easier ways to do that.
      - logfromblammo 11y ago
        E-peen isn't always about showing off to others. Sometimes you just want to figuratively admire it for a while in the mirror. I think they're honestly trying to be better people. And in trying, they become happier with themselves. But I also think that what they do does not actually make them objectively better, because I have different moral standards than they have. As a result, the self-satisfaction vegans achieve by adhering to their standard of conduct sounds very much like someone telling me about how they caught all the Pokemon. They may be very proud of their accomplishment, but any interest I show is feigned, purely to spare the other person's feelings. A fraction of vegans like to proselytize or otherwise promote their voluntary conduct challenge, and I can't stand those guys.
- innguest 11y ago
  Everything vegans eat is already ready - can't get any faster than that.
- nosefrog 11y ago
  And I pity the cows.
  - crush_fear_27 11y ago
    i pity the hindus even though i can empathize with them. it just feels _wrong_ on some irrational, emotional level, to think of killing a cow, even though i feel nothing when i think of eating chicken.
    - jessaustin 11y ago
      I've killed a variety of different species, but outside a self-defense situation (and I would hesitate even then) I could never shoot a bear, for much the same reason. I just can't look at bears and not think they're simply furry people.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      I've known chickens. Don't worry about killing them. They don't even mind. They can last indefinitely without their head.
      - nosefrog 11y ago
        Please don't say things like that. I know chickens that care very much about their own lives and the chickens they live with. They do not want to be killed.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Oh for goodness sake. They run from shadows etc, but their is no possibility that they value or care for anything.
        nosefrog 11y ago
        I'm not going to argue with you, but please stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about. For anyone else that reads this thread, chickens are smart animals with complex social lives. See this excerpt from "Are Chickens Smarter Than Toddlers?": In 1996, I discovered Dr. Lesley Rogers’s book The Development of Brain and Behaviour in the Chicken (1995) in the Beltsville, Maryland Agricultural Library outside Washington, DC. I sat on the floor of the stacks, reading it in tears, because Rogers was affirming that birds are intelligent beings, and that prejudice, not science, says otherwise. She said, “it is now clear that birds have cognitive capacities equivalent to those of mammals” (p. 17). She said, “With increased knowledge of the behaviour and cognitive abilities of the chicken has come the realization that the chicken is not an inferior species to be treated merely as a food source” (p. 213). She explained that a chick “hatches with a well-developed brain, immediately able to make decisions and to form memories” (p. 118). Of battery cages for hens and all forms of industrial conditions for chickens, she said: “In no way can these living conditions meet the demands of a complex nervous system designed to form a multitude of memories and to make complex decisions” (p. 218). Citing recent demonstrations of complex cognition in birds including chickens and others once denigrated by mainstream scientists as “unquestionably low in the scale of avian evolution,” Rogers called for more research in the field of comparative cognition, given how recent studies had “thrown the fallacies of previous assumptions about the inferiority of avian cognition into sharp relief” (p. 218). I was ecstatic. A bona fide avian scientist was saying what I already knew to be true about birds, and about chickens in particular, in forthright language that could be quoted without ellipses. She spoke of “the cognitive demands of the hitherto underestimated chicken brain” (p. 213). The chicken’s brain is equipped to enable it to meet the complex demands of the natural world in which this brain took shape. There is a fit between the total mental system of the chicken and the tropical forest habitat in which chickens evolved. Chickens have thrived for tens of thousands of years within the complex ecology of their forest world – a world that is reflected in their genetic makeup. The neurophysiology of the chicken embodies a system of interactions between the genetic, hormonal and environmental factors that figure in the developing embryo and express themselves in the adult bird. http://www.upc-online.org/thinking/are_chickens_smarter.html http://www.upc-online.org/thinking/are_chickens_smarter.html

by gmarx 11y ago

jessaustin 11y ago

Bring back the beef tallow french fries McDonalds! You and I and anyone else with tastebuds will appreciate it, but I pity the vegans. Fast food will be completely off-limits.

logfromblammo 11y ago
Vegans couldn't eat McDonald's french fries anyway. When they switched their fryer oil, they added natural beef flavoring to compensate. I know some vegetarians that were pissed about this when they found out, but McDonald's quite rightly pointed out that they have never, ever attempted to certify any of their menu items as vegetarian or vegan, not even the salads. They leave that up to third parties, and state that they do not strictly enforce efforts to prevent cross contamination from kitchen equipment also used for meat products. It is likely that the only markets in which McDonald's would make more than a token effort to serve vegetarians would be India and select parts of California. Aside from that, I wonder why a vegan would be considering fast food anyway. If you take more than a cursory glance at how such restaurants get their vegetable ingredients, you would see quite a lot of animal cruelty in the form of the institutional working environment for agricultural laborers. The 2001 Yum! Brands boycott, precipitated by tomato pickers in Florida, comes to mind. I pity the vegans because they voluntarily choose a form of asceticism, and are not likely to get any compensatory benefit for doing so. They choose to make their own lives more difficult, just like people who play games with unofficial voluntary conduct challenges. I'm not going to fault them for doing it, but I'm also not going to change my personal opinion that they are at some level just spoiling their own fun just for a few extra millimeters of e-peen.
- crush_fear_27 11y ago
  >a few extra millimeters of e-peen can you tell me what that means? i honestly can't tell.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    GP suspects that vegans are only vegan in order to impress others. I disagree, because there are many easier ways to do that.
    - logfromblammo 11y ago
      E-peen isn't always about showing off to others. Sometimes you just want to figuratively admire it for a while in the mirror. I think they're honestly trying to be better people. And in trying, they become happier with themselves. But I also think that what they do does not actually make them objectively better, because I have different moral standards than they have. As a result, the self-satisfaction vegans achieve by adhering to their standard of conduct sounds very much like someone telling me about how they caught all the Pokemon. They may be very proud of their accomplishment, but any interest I show is feigned, purely to spare the other person's feelings. A fraction of vegans like to proselytize or otherwise promote their voluntary conduct challenge, and I can't stand those guys.
innguest 11y ago
Everything vegans eat is already ready - can't get any faster than that.
nosefrog 11y ago
And I pity the cows.
- crush_fear_27 11y ago
  i pity the hindus even though i can empathize with them. it just feels _wrong_ on some irrational, emotional level, to think of killing a cow, even though i feel nothing when i think of eating chicken.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    I've killed a variety of different species, but outside a self-defense situation (and I would hesitate even then) I could never shoot a bear, for much the same reason. I just can't look at bears and not think they're simply furry people.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    I've known chickens. Don't worry about killing them. They don't even mind. They can last indefinitely without their head.
    - nosefrog 11y ago
      Please don't say things like that. I know chickens that care very much about their own lives and the chickens they live with. They do not want to be killed.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Oh for goodness sake. They run from shadows etc, but their is no possibility that they value or care for anything.
        nosefrog 11y ago
        I'm not going to argue with you, but please stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about. For anyone else that reads this thread, chickens are smart animals with complex social lives. See this excerpt from "Are Chickens Smarter Than Toddlers?": In 1996, I discovered Dr. Lesley Rogers’s book The Development of Brain and Behaviour in the Chicken (1995) in the Beltsville, Maryland Agricultural Library outside Washington, DC. I sat on the floor of the stacks, reading it in tears, because Rogers was affirming that birds are intelligent beings, and that prejudice, not science, says otherwise. She said, “it is now clear that birds have cognitive capacities equivalent to those of mammals” (p. 17). She said, “With increased knowledge of the behaviour and cognitive abilities of the chicken has come the realization that the chicken is not an inferior species to be treated merely as a food source” (p. 213). She explained that a chick “hatches with a well-developed brain, immediately able to make decisions and to form memories” (p. 118). Of battery cages for hens and all forms of industrial conditions for chickens, she said: “In no way can these living conditions meet the demands of a complex nervous system designed to form a multitude of memories and to make complex decisions” (p. 218). Citing recent demonstrations of complex cognition in birds including chickens and others once denigrated by mainstream scientists as “unquestionably low in the scale of avian evolution,” Rogers called for more research in the field of comparative cognition, given how recent studies had “thrown the fallacies of previous assumptions about the inferiority of avian cognition into sharp relief” (p. 218). I was ecstatic. A bona fide avian scientist was saying what I already knew to be true about birds, and about chickens in particular, in forthright language that could be quoted without ellipses. She spoke of “the cognitive demands of the hitherto underestimated chicken brain” (p. 213). The chicken’s brain is equipped to enable it to meet the complex demands of the natural world in which this brain took shape. There is a fit between the total mental system of the chicken and the tropical forest habitat in which chickens evolved. Chickens have thrived for tens of thousands of years within the complex ecology of their forest world – a world that is reflected in their genetic makeup. The neurophysiology of the chicken embodies a system of interactions between the genetic, hormonal and environmental factors that figure in the developing embryo and express themselves in the adult bird. http://www.upc-online.org/thinking/are_chickens_smarter.html http://www.upc-online.org/thinking/are_chickens_smarter.html