9 ms·

The North Korean weirdness differs only in degree, and not in kind, from the everyday actions of every government that issues fiat (non-gold-backed) currency.

jeromec 17y ago
@asciilifeform, I agree with your statement, which is why I would only advocate fiat currency by a govt. such as we have in the U.S. where the will of the people is (largely, at least) represented.
- lowkey 17y ago
  "a govt. such as we have in the U.S. where the will of the people is (largely, at least) represented" Really? The majority of the American people believe that the top two economic priorities of our nation are to perpetuate endless war and give all the rest of the money to international bankers? I reject your premise and find it has no merit.
  - jeromec 17y ago
    > The majority of the American people believe that the top two economic priorities of our nation are to perpetuate endless war The American people elected President Obama. Did you not see his speech about Afghanistan last night? He contradicts the endless war notion directly. I've looked it up for you: (23:00 to 25:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLVqhsLgIw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLVqhsLgIw
    - rbanffy 17y ago
      It remains to be seen if the rest of the military industrial complex and its government tendrils will allow that.
      - jeromec 17y ago
        touche, but President Obama is commander-in-chief, and he hasn't wavered from his stance, even when voting against the Iraq war as a senator.
mnemonicsloth 17y ago
This would work on gold-backed currency too. Stop issuing green bills-redeemable-for-X-amount-of-gold and start issuing red ones. The only currency this wouldn't work on is actual gold, silver, etc.
- asciilifeform 17y ago
  > Stop issuing green bills-redeemable-for-X-amount-of-gold and start issuing red ones The green ones are no longer gold backed, in that case. Gold-backing which can be revoked on a whim is not gold-backing in any interesting sense.
  - mnemonicsloth 17y ago
    The green ones are no longer gold backed, in that case. In other words, gold-backed currency would be completely ineffective at restraining a meat-grinder like North Korea, which is what this thread was supposed to be about.
- patio11 17y ago
  It always amuses me that some people sneer at thinking paper can have value, and point to their security blanket: magic, shiny rocks. (There are magic rocks, and shiny rocks, but duh, only the magic, shiny rocks are useful as currency. Naturally.) You can have wild fluctuations in the supply of magic, shiny rocks -- it has happened before, and it will happen again. For example, when Spain discovered that they could kill people and take their rocks more efficiently than they could mine their own rocks. It also happens on the microeconomic level, a phenomenon known as a Magic Shiny Rock Rush. When the supply of magic, shiny rocks increases suddenly, the amount of magic, shiny rocks you need to buy things also increases.
  - jeromec 17y ago
    That's a good point about the risk of supply fluctuations, but there is no denying it keeps govt's in check by removing the ability to (easily) manipulate currency. EDIT: In response to replies the above should read "govt's in check short of using force"
dschobel 17y ago
The $40 equivalent cap is the unprecedented part. I don't see how you can argue that the inflation you see in relatively free-market economies can compare with that.
- RyanMcGreal 17y ago
  It's like deposit insurance in reverse. :(

jeromec 17y ago

@asciilifeform, I agree with your statement, which is why I would only advocate fiat currency by a govt. such as we have in the U.S. where the will of the people is (largely, at least) represented.

lowkey 17y ago
"a govt. such as we have in the U.S. where the will of the people is (largely, at least) represented" Really? The majority of the American people believe that the top two economic priorities of our nation are to perpetuate endless war and give all the rest of the money to international bankers? I reject your premise and find it has no merit.
- jeromec 17y ago
  > The majority of the American people believe that the top two economic priorities of our nation are to perpetuate endless war The American people elected President Obama. Did you not see his speech about Afghanistan last night? He contradicts the endless war notion directly. I've looked it up for you: (23:00 to 25:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLVqhsLgIw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLVqhsLgIw
  - rbanffy 17y ago
    It remains to be seen if the rest of the military industrial complex and its government tendrils will allow that.
    - jeromec 17y ago
      touche, but President Obama is commander-in-chief, and he hasn't wavered from his stance, even when voting against the Iraq war as a senator.

mnemonicsloth 17y ago

This would work on gold-backed currency too. Stop issuing green bills-redeemable-for-X-amount-of-gold and start issuing red ones. The only currency this wouldn't work on is actual gold, silver, etc.

asciilifeform 17y ago
> Stop issuing green bills-redeemable-for-X-amount-of-gold and start issuing red ones The green ones are no longer gold backed, in that case. Gold-backing which can be revoked on a whim is not gold-backing in any interesting sense.
- mnemonicsloth 17y ago
  The green ones are no longer gold backed, in that case. In other words, gold-backed currency would be completely ineffective at restraining a meat-grinder like North Korea, which is what this thread was supposed to be about.
patio11 17y ago
It always amuses me that some people sneer at thinking paper can have value, and point to their security blanket: magic, shiny rocks. (There are magic rocks, and shiny rocks, but duh, only the magic, shiny rocks are useful as currency. Naturally.) You can have wild fluctuations in the supply of magic, shiny rocks -- it has happened before, and it will happen again. For example, when Spain discovered that they could kill people and take their rocks more efficiently than they could mine their own rocks. It also happens on the microeconomic level, a phenomenon known as a Magic Shiny Rock Rush. When the supply of magic, shiny rocks increases suddenly, the amount of magic, shiny rocks you need to buy things also increases.
- jeromec 17y ago
  That's a good point about the risk of supply fluctuations, but there is no denying it keeps govt's in check by removing the ability to (easily) manipulate currency. EDIT: In response to replies the above should read "govt's in check short of using force"

dschobel 17y ago

The $40 equivalent cap is the unprecedented part. I don't see how you can argue that the inflation you see in relatively free-market economies can compare with that.

RyanMcGreal 17y ago
It's like deposit insurance in reverse. :(