4 ms·

"Most smart people I know have decided to just not discuss anything sensitive"

17 points by randomname2 11y ago

ebfe 11y ago
I wish I was oppressed enough to have the power to get people fired for saying things I disagree with.
randomname2 11y ago
Paraphrased due to 80 character limit. The full quote is: "Most smart people I know have decided to just not discuss anything sensitive because of the internet lynchmob looking for any slight mistake. This seems unlikely to be a good development. At some point the conversations will only have the extremists left."
Nadya 11y ago
>.@sama when you said "smart people," did you mean "people in positions of privilege, esp. white dudes"? bc it's p cool if y'all shut up tbh This person managed to not only be the exact type of person Sama mentions, but also classist, racist and sexist at the same time. But if I pointed that out outside of a pseudonym I'd probably lose my job for pointing out that yes, it is possible to be racist against white people (and sexist towards men). Redefining the words to somehow exclude your viewpoints isn't how the world (should) work - but is increasingly becoming so. There is an entire group of extreme leftists who hate "white males" by default. Because they've somehow reasoned to themselves that white males chose to be born that way and it is impossible to be racist or sexist towards them based on how they were born. I have no idea the mental hurdles they jump over to reason about their beliefs.
- caseydurfee 11y ago
  Well, since you're not discussing things with an actual person, but the ludicrous one dimensional straw man version of an "extreme leftist" that only lives inside your own head, you're just congratulating yourself over having constructed an absurd caricature, not actually winning an argument here. Are you aware of that? If so, it might be useful for you to think about why you gain pleasure/satisfaction from constructing an idiotic parody of others' beliefs that you can bat about your own head. What purpose does it serve for you? The tweet you quote is saying something about privilege - how is it "classist, racist and sexist at the same time"? What do you believe is inaccurate about the assertion relative to privilege? Do you believe that white men don't (in aggregate) have more privilege than other groups of people? Or do you believe that privilege doesn't color the way people see the world? What evidence do you have that "extreme leftists" (actual people, not ludicrous self-invented caricatures) believe that "white males chose to be born that way" and thus "it is impossible to racist or sexist towards them"? I'm not an "extreme leftist" but one of the most common things I hear from leftists is that "patriarchy hurts men too."
  - ebfe 11y ago
    He's quoting an actual person. It's the first response to the tweet.
    - Nadya 11y ago
      Nadya is a feminine name meaning "Hope" in Russian. Not that gender is important online - I prefer not to disclose it. I just find it funny you assumed I am a he, regardless of my username implying otherwise.
  - Nadya 11y ago
    Let me start with saying: I'm a left-leaning Libertarian. To the extreme-left, I'm still a "filthy right-winger" (and have been accused of being such numerous times in discussions with them). Oddly enough, being right-leaning is seen as a "bad thing" rather than simply another political standing. >The tweet you quote is saying something about privilege "smart people, did you mean..." makes several assumptions: 1) Smart people are those in positions of "privilege" This implies heavily that smart people are born into this "position of privilege" and not people who have earned it through hard work (ie. making smart decisions) 2) Smart people are especially white Even if tied into the "positions of" part - this is still discrediting anyone who has earned their position. The ideology seems to think that people are given their positions based on their privilege rather than any individual credentials they may hold to have acquired their social standing. That is racist. 3) Smart people are especially dudes See #2, except it is now sexist. 2 and 3 are both sexist and racist regardless if tied to 'position of privilege' or 'smart people' contexts. Sama is not making any relation to sex or race, the sexist and racist respondent is the one dragging it into the conversation. >Do you believe that white men don't (in aggregate) have more privilege than other groups of people? Irrelevant and largely US based. For example, it's not a large surprise that the majority of large business owners in a primarily white population would also be white. That's statistics, not privilege, at work. Redefining "prejudice against people because of the way they were born" to be "privilege" doesn't make it any less wrong to do. It simply provides a cover to try and make it look defensible, which is the exact sly tactic I am criticizing. >Or do you believe that privilege doesn't color the way people see the world? Is this a subtle nod towards racism or an unintended message with your choice of the word "color"? I can't tell. If racism: I've yet to see any studies supporting that it does. I'd argue quite the opposite actually: growing up in a ghetto "colors" my view in a far more harmful way than if I had grown up "privileged". It took many years to unlearn the extreme level of racist beliefs I held as a child/preteen that developed due to where I was raised. I've noticed most liberal, white far-left "politically correct" people are born and raised, ironically, in a high level of privilege (they can attend liberal arts colleges? that's already more privileged than me...) and in primarily white neighborhoods (SanFran). If racism or not: Regardless, focusing entirely on it makes the person an annoying and bitter person to be around to people outside of the social bubble with similarly held beliefs. This video sums up my views on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qMtPrHoVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qMtPrHoVs >What evidence do you have that "extreme leftists"... Sometimes you'll find that broad generalizations are not meant as literal blanket statements of each and every individual - but rather as a "case that generally holds true with few exceptions" and is a method of speech to quickly convey an idea without spending 5 paragraphs citing niche exceptions and perhaps "people of note" or an entire reply dedicated to clarifying the point. It's an important concept of communication to understand and makes discussions more brief, easier to read, and generally more to-the-point. If I say "dentists recommend brushing and flossing" - is it assumed 100% of all dentists recommend brushing and flossing? Well, what if I found an exception (although perhaps a questionable dentist...)? It's a broad, blanket statement that someone might be able to cite some exceptions but for the most part holds true. The important concept is I don't have to clarify very specifically or add pointless exceptions to my statement. Spend 3 months on the internet following any far left-leaning opinion pieces/social circles and the construction of their narratives - often repeated, cited, sourced, quoted, and paraphrased around these circles. Take a look at universities with "safe spaces" where "men are not allowed" (sometimes further clarified as: "white men are not allowed"). Read the self-congratulatory and mob-mentality of the comment sections of these articles. The extreme leftists have defined themselves - and wear it with a badge of pride to show their extreme political correctness, even going as far as advocating censorship and 1984-esque enforcement. These are often-cited criticisms - that are largely ignored, excused, or brushed off with a redefining of terms to excuse themselves of any faults. "Racism = racial prejudice + power" will lead you down a rabbit whole on its own of the lefts' attempts at redefining what racism is, to specifically exclude "white people" based on their "position of power". Regardless if said white person is even in a position of power (they are in power, always and implicitly, because they are white! /"not a racist statement") Perhaps I'm wrong to call them "extreme leftists" - although that is the branding many of them have chosen to define themselves as. If that is your only criticism, blame them for hijacking the term. When speaking about the "extreme leftists", until today, I've never ran into an issue where the other person did not assume I was talking about the "Orwellian-censorship wanting Totalitarian-state supporting politically correct left who seem to be straight from 1984". That is how strong an identity they have outside of their own social bubble they choose to live in (since they block, censor, or talk down on any views that do not already match their own). I hope this response helped clarify any issues you may have had. But I appreciate that not everyone wants to read a novel that spends several paragraphs explaining itself rather than the message it is trying to convey.
chetanahuja 11y ago
Hah.. this thread will show a very interesting phenomenon. By definition, anybody commenting here is not a smart person (oops.. what have I done ;-) )
randomname2 11y ago
Yesterday on Twitter, Jason Calacanis had an interesting (if arguably inflammatory) explanation for this: "Looking for explanations of bizarre behavior online (#RachelDolezal, trolls, gamergate, SJW)? two #s: 4.1% & 58.7%. I don't look for explanations of bizarre behavior any more... there are many sick people out there & they are drawn to social media." Where 4.7% is the prevalence of severe mental illness and 58.7% is the percentage that is in treatment. And to be fair, the behavior of the most vocal online extremists overlaps to a large degree with that of people with Cluster B personality disorders.
itg 11y ago
Unfortunately these internet lynch mobs are spilling out to the real world where you can't even make jokes or hold viewpoints that are not approved by the Internet Hug Box Mob. See Seinfeld, Tim Hunt, or the Strange Loop mess.
- retrogradeorbit 11y ago
  What's this mess around Strange Loop? Do you have any links I can read?
  - vmorgulis 11y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9674992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9674992
paulhauggis 11y ago
It's true. I won't discuss anything sensitive online. All of my friends have political battles online through Facebook and it will only hurt their future job prospects. Many, many people have been fired over silly comments on Facebook (read: having an opinion that makes special-interest groups, and in some cases, people with mental problems, angry). 1984 is here and it's ourselves. We truly don't have the freedom of speech when just stating your opinion gets you fired, your business destroyed, or your personal life attacked. We are also giving power to anyone and everyone that wants it. If I wanted to get someone fired, I could easily dig through their personal info and get a twitter mob online to protest their employer. It works every time because businesses don't want the bad PR and the media just wants to continue on with the same narrative.
fiberglass 11y ago
> It's true. I won't discuss anything sensitive online. > people with mental problems, angry). and yet here you are being yet again the odious cunt spewing mindless juvenile idiocy > I won't discuss anything sensitive online. I should be so lucky
- paulhauggis 11y ago
  "and yet here you are being yet again the odious cunt spewing mindless juvenile idiocy" I'm not sure where you get this from. I'm talking about freedom of speech here and the only thing you can do is spout mindless pejoratives. ..and Juvenile? I don't think you really know the meaning of the word. "I should be so lucky" You are free to leave. Did you create this account just for me? I feel honored.
  - dang 11y ago
    Please don't dilute the threads further by feeding trolls. Instead, flag the comment and move on. To flag a comment, click on its timestamp to go to its item page. You'll see a flag link there. We've detached this subthread and marked it off topic.
    - paulhauggis 11y ago
      It's not diluting anything. I was merely responding.
jbandela1 11y ago
I have been thinking about this for a while. This lead me to create https://www.spqrs.com https://www.spqrs.com This is basically anonymous twitter where everybody has a generated pseudonym instead of a username. You can follow users, and in addition can follow topics. If you are interested in trying it out, you can get a signup code at https://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?c=cart;i=1436036;cl=296496;ejc=2 https://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?c=cart;i=1436036;cl=296... (I have about 90 codes left out of the initial batch) At the checkout enter discount code JRBFREEDOM to get the code for free.

17 points by randomname2 11y ago

ebfe 11y ago

I wish I was oppressed enough to have the power to get people fired for saying things I disagree with.

Paraphrased due to 80 character limit. The full quote is: "Most smart people I know have decided to just not discuss anything sensitive because of the internet lynchmob looking for any slight mistake. This seems unlikely to be a good development. At some point the conversations will only have the extremists left."

Nadya 11y ago

>.@sama when you said "smart people," did you mean "people in positions of privilege, esp. white dudes"? bc it's p cool if y'all shut up tbh This person managed to not only be the exact type of person Sama mentions, but also classist, racist and sexist at the same time. But if I pointed that out outside of a pseudonym I'd probably lose my job for pointing out that yes, it is possible to be racist against white people (and sexist towards men). Redefining the words to somehow exclude your viewpoints isn't how the world (should) work - but is increasingly becoming so. There is an entire group of extreme leftists who hate "white males" by default. Because they've somehow reasoned to themselves that white males chose to be born that way and it is impossible to be racist or sexist towards them based on how they were born. I have no idea the mental hurdles they jump over to reason about their beliefs.

caseydurfee 11y ago
Well, since you're not discussing things with an actual person, but the ludicrous one dimensional straw man version of an "extreme leftist" that only lives inside your own head, you're just congratulating yourself over having constructed an absurd caricature, not actually winning an argument here. Are you aware of that? If so, it might be useful for you to think about why you gain pleasure/satisfaction from constructing an idiotic parody of others' beliefs that you can bat about your own head. What purpose does it serve for you? The tweet you quote is saying something about privilege - how is it "classist, racist and sexist at the same time"? What do you believe is inaccurate about the assertion relative to privilege? Do you believe that white men don't (in aggregate) have more privilege than other groups of people? Or do you believe that privilege doesn't color the way people see the world? What evidence do you have that "extreme leftists" (actual people, not ludicrous self-invented caricatures) believe that "white males chose to be born that way" and thus "it is impossible to racist or sexist towards them"? I'm not an "extreme leftist" but one of the most common things I hear from leftists is that "patriarchy hurts men too."
- ebfe 11y ago
  He's quoting an actual person. It's the first response to the tweet.
  - Nadya 11y ago
    Nadya is a feminine name meaning "Hope" in Russian. Not that gender is important online - I prefer not to disclose it. I just find it funny you assumed I am a he, regardless of my username implying otherwise.
- Nadya 11y ago
  Let me start with saying: I'm a left-leaning Libertarian. To the extreme-left, I'm still a "filthy right-winger" (and have been accused of being such numerous times in discussions with them). Oddly enough, being right-leaning is seen as a "bad thing" rather than simply another political standing. >The tweet you quote is saying something about privilege "smart people, did you mean..." makes several assumptions: 1) Smart people are those in positions of "privilege" This implies heavily that smart people are born into this "position of privilege" and not people who have earned it through hard work (ie. making smart decisions) 2) Smart people are especially white Even if tied into the "positions of" part - this is still discrediting anyone who has earned their position. The ideology seems to think that people are given their positions based on their privilege rather than any individual credentials they may hold to have acquired their social standing. That is racist. 3) Smart people are especially dudes See #2, except it is now sexist. 2 and 3 are both sexist and racist regardless if tied to 'position of privilege' or 'smart people' contexts. Sama is not making any relation to sex or race, the sexist and racist respondent is the one dragging it into the conversation. >Do you believe that white men don't (in aggregate) have more privilege than other groups of people? Irrelevant and largely US based. For example, it's not a large surprise that the majority of large business owners in a primarily white population would also be white. That's statistics, not privilege, at work. Redefining "prejudice against people because of the way they were born" to be "privilege" doesn't make it any less wrong to do. It simply provides a cover to try and make it look defensible, which is the exact sly tactic I am criticizing. >Or do you believe that privilege doesn't color the way people see the world? Is this a subtle nod towards racism or an unintended message with your choice of the word "color"? I can't tell. If racism: I've yet to see any studies supporting that it does. I'd argue quite the opposite actually: growing up in a ghetto "colors" my view in a far more harmful way than if I had grown up "privileged". It took many years to unlearn the extreme level of racist beliefs I held as a child/preteen that developed due to where I was raised. I've noticed most liberal, white far-left "politically correct" people are born and raised, ironically, in a high level of privilege (they can attend liberal arts colleges? that's already more privileged than me...) and in primarily white neighborhoods (SanFran). If racism or not: Regardless, focusing entirely on it makes the person an annoying and bitter person to be around to people outside of the social bubble with similarly held beliefs. This video sums up my views on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qMtPrHoVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qMtPrHoVs >What evidence do you have that "extreme leftists"... Sometimes you'll find that broad generalizations are not meant as literal blanket statements of each and every individual - but rather as a "case that generally holds true with few exceptions" and is a method of speech to quickly convey an idea without spending 5 paragraphs citing niche exceptions and perhaps "people of note" or an entire reply dedicated to clarifying the point. It's an important concept of communication to understand and makes discussions more brief, easier to read, and generally more to-the-point. If I say "dentists recommend brushing and flossing" - is it assumed 100% of all dentists recommend brushing and flossing? Well, what if I found an exception (although perhaps a questionable dentist...)? It's a broad, blanket statement that someone might be able to cite some exceptions but for the most part holds true. The important concept is I don't have to clarify very specifically or add pointless exceptions to my statement. Spend 3 months on the internet following any far left-leaning opinion pieces/social circles and the construction of their narratives - often repeated, cited, sourced, quoted, and paraphrased around these circles. Take a look at universities with "safe spaces" where "men are not allowed" (sometimes further clarified as: "white men are not allowed"). Read the self-congratulatory and mob-mentality of the comment sections of these articles. The extreme leftists have defined themselves - and wear it with a badge of pride to show their extreme political correctness, even going as far as advocating censorship and 1984-esque enforcement. These are often-cited criticisms - that are largely ignored, excused, or brushed off with a redefining of terms to excuse themselves of any faults. "Racism = racial prejudice + power" will lead you down a rabbit whole on its own of the lefts' attempts at redefining what racism is, to specifically exclude "white people" based on their "position of power". Regardless if said white person is even in a position of power (they are in power, always and implicitly, because they are white! /"not a racist statement") Perhaps I'm wrong to call them "extreme leftists" - although that is the branding many of them have chosen to define themselves as. If that is your only criticism, blame them for hijacking the term. When speaking about the "extreme leftists", until today, I've never ran into an issue where the other person did not assume I was talking about the "Orwellian-censorship wanting Totalitarian-state supporting politically correct left who seem to be straight from 1984". That is how strong an identity they have outside of their own social bubble they choose to live in (since they block, censor, or talk down on any views that do not already match their own). I hope this response helped clarify any issues you may have had. But I appreciate that not everyone wants to read a novel that spends several paragraphs explaining itself rather than the message it is trying to convey.

chetanahuja 11y ago

Hah.. this thread will show a very interesting phenomenon. By definition, anybody commenting here is not a smart person (oops.. what have I done ;-) )

randomname2 11y ago

Yesterday on Twitter, Jason Calacanis had an interesting (if arguably inflammatory) explanation for this: "Looking for explanations of bizarre behavior online (#RachelDolezal, trolls, gamergate, SJW)? two #s: 4.1% & 58.7%. I don't look for explanations of bizarre behavior any more... there are many sick people out there & they are drawn to social media." Where 4.7% is the prevalence of severe mental illness and 58.7% is the percentage that is in treatment. And to be fair, the behavior of the most vocal online extremists overlaps to a large degree with that of people with Cluster B personality disorders.

itg 11y ago

Unfortunately these internet lynch mobs are spilling out to the real world where you can't even make jokes or hold viewpoints that are not approved by the Internet Hug Box Mob. See Seinfeld, Tim Hunt, or the Strange Loop mess.

retrogradeorbit 11y ago
What's this mess around Strange Loop? Do you have any links I can read?
- vmorgulis 11y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9674992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9674992

paulhauggis 11y ago

It's true. I won't discuss anything sensitive online. All of my friends have political battles online through Facebook and it will only hurt their future job prospects. Many, many people have been fired over silly comments on Facebook (read: having an opinion that makes special-interest groups, and in some cases, people with mental problems, angry). 1984 is here and it's ourselves. We truly don't have the freedom of speech when just stating your opinion gets you fired, your business destroyed, or your personal life attacked. We are also giving power to anyone and everyone that wants it. If I wanted to get someone fired, I could easily dig through their personal info and get a twitter mob online to protest their employer. It works every time because businesses don't want the bad PR and the media just wants to continue on with the same narrative.

fiberglass 11y ago

> It's true. I won't discuss anything sensitive online. > people with mental problems, angry). and yet here you are being yet again the odious cunt spewing mindless juvenile idiocy > I won't discuss anything sensitive online. I should be so lucky

paulhauggis 11y ago
"and yet here you are being yet again the odious cunt spewing mindless juvenile idiocy" I'm not sure where you get this from. I'm talking about freedom of speech here and the only thing you can do is spout mindless pejoratives. ..and Juvenile? I don't think you really know the meaning of the word. "I should be so lucky" You are free to leave. Did you create this account just for me? I feel honored.
- dang 11y ago
  Please don't dilute the threads further by feeding trolls. Instead, flag the comment and move on. To flag a comment, click on its timestamp to go to its item page. You'll see a flag link there. We've detached this subthread and marked it off topic.
  - paulhauggis 11y ago
    It's not diluting anything. I was merely responding.

jbandela1 11y ago

I have been thinking about this for a while. This lead me to create https://www.spqrs.com https://www.spqrs.com This is basically anonymous twitter where everybody has a generated pseudonym instead of a username. You can follow users, and in addition can follow topics. If you are interested in trying it out, you can get a signup code at https://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?c=cart;i=1436036;cl=296496;ejc=2 https://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?c=cart;i=1436036;cl=296... (I have about 90 codes left out of the initial batch) At the checkout enter discount code JRBFREEDOM to get the code for free.