9 ms·
holy crap, did a government legally just steal all the money from it's people?
by etherealG 17y ago
holy crap, did a government legally just steal all the money from it's people?
- sirrocco 17y agoI'm not sure it's that uncommon in communism. My grandparents told me that the same thing happened in Romania when it was under communist rule. When we recently slashed a few zeros from our currency (denomination i believe it's called) they were afraid that the same thing would happen again.
- josefresco 17y agoIt isn't uncommon, FTA: "The absence of information in official media adds to the unusual circumstances of the action. North Korea has reissued currency four times previously, all with great fanfare and explanation to the outside world."
- turkishrevenge 17y agoUnfortunately Ceauşescu's reign of terror resulted in a lot of horrible policies under the banner of "socialism" Just look at the ban he placed on abortion and the curtailing of womens rights, which is probably the most reactionary thing a government can do.
- joss82 17y agoWhat if people disagree and just keep using the old currency among them ? Yeah, I guess they'll get shot. Also, the mention of "closed-circuit system that feeds into speakers in homes and on streets but can't be monitored outside the country" reminds me so much of Brave New World/1984/Big Brother stuff.
- josefresco 17y agoWould be scary if NK had more power. Fortunately for us (and unfortunate for their people) the country is very poor and relies almost entirely on aid from other countries (China) to keep things going.
- thaumaturgy 17y agoThey have nuclear weapons -- or want the world to believe they do -- and likely intend to use those weapons to ensure that they get an unlimited supply of aid from other countries. That was all over the mainstream U.S. news not that long ago, even. Poor? Maybe in terms of GDP. But certainly not powerless.
- rbanffy 17y agoI guess China could carpet-nuke NK if they ever got tired of aiding them.
- jrockway 17y agoBut then North Korea nukes Seoul, Shanghai, and Tokyo. Nuclear war has no winners.
- gloob 17y agoSeoul, definitely. I would be mildly surprised if it actually managed to hit Shanghai or Tokyo. North Korean military hardware is not known for it's quality. On the upside, North Korea isn't suicidal, and it's not like China was going to stop giving them aid anyway, so it probably makes little practical difference anyway.
- gchpaco 17y agoMuch more likely is they just engineer a coup and quietly shoot Der Leader.
- drcode 17y agoNot only that, but the speakers don't have an off switch either (although they do graciously provide a volume knob)
- jplewicke 17y agoThis actually happened in Iraq after the first Gulf War: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Swiss_dinar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Swiss_dinar . Since the government was no longer printing the older currency, it was then immune to inflation by Saddam's government. The old currency appreciated against the newer, inflated currency until we deposed Saddam. It's amazing how little you need to back a currency, and how unbacked ones can be stronger than fiat currency.
- eru 17y agoA fascinating example. I recently talked with someone about fiat currencies being backed by the taxation power of the issuing state, to get their worth. It seems that once the system is booted this help may be no longer necessary.
- wmf 17y agoDidn't the same situation exist in Neuromancer where all governments had abandoned paper money but criminals continued to use it?
- joeyo 17y agoYet another example of Gibson's disturbing prescience.
- listic 17y agoRe: 1984 My first thought was "How wicked!" Second thought was "Hey, but we have those thingies in Russia too!" There is a wired radio system in Russia, established way back in the Soviet era, which transmits three radio channels. Simple receiver can consist basically of a loudspeaker and variable resistor as a volume knob, while more complicated receiver can receive one of 3 channels. There's a simple receiver on the wall next to me as I write this. Interestingly, I couldn't find any pictures of my exact model, so here's my (lame) attempt: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22022497@N04/4154137046/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/22022497@N04/4154137046/ There's another, 3-channel one, of the latest incarnation (late 80's or early 90's) in the kitchen. When my dad bought it, I remember everyone coming to our house thinking it's a VCR, so that should say something of its size and form factor. It still sits up there near the ceiling mainly because of its large luminiscent clock on the front panel. We don't turn these radios on except maybe twice a year out of curiosity :) These things fit the description "closed-circuit system that... can't be monitored outside the country" if by that you mean "wired"
- asciilifeform 17y agoThanks for the photo. One of my earliest childhood memories is falling asleep to one of these things.
- steve19 17y agoWhat do they play on these channels?
- listic 17y agoMusic and various programes; nothing special.
- joss82 17y agoThanks for the picture. I think I saw one in Poland as well. So that's what those are for ! Also, an obvious hack to monitor this "close-circuit" system: just attach a satellite transmitter to the output of a receiver. Even cheaper: make a web radio out of one of these. Wait, you need internet access to do that...
- pvandehaar 17y agoV for Vendetta.
- sdfx 17y agolegally is a funny word when talking about north korea.
- dimas 17y agolegality is relative term to rules and constitution of the country. North Korea is totally dominated by the government therefore sets its own rules. Whatever government does is considered to be legal because they make it to be so.
- zck 17y agoWell, a government has to follow its own laws. For example, the U.S. government could conceivably bring its troops into a house under gunpoint and have them sleep the night there. It wouldn't be legal, since it's directly against the Third Amendment.
- mattm 17y ago"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal" - Richard Nixon
- jrockway 17y ago"It all depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." - Bill Clinton.
- ugh 17y agoThat's what's called rule of law and it is, regretably, not as common as one might think. Especially dictatorships often had and have some kind of law that allows the dictator to do anything. You could call it rule of law minus one. One person who is exempted from the rule of law is enough to bring the whole system down. Strange, how fickle the rule of law seems to be.
- anigbrowl 17y agoA republican or democratic (small-r/d) government does. North Korea essentially has government by fiat, and its parliament is purely decorative.
- asciilifeform 17y agoThe North Korean weirdness differs only in degree, and not in kind, from the everyday actions of every government that issues fiat (non-gold-backed) currency.
- jeromec 17y ago@asciilifeform, I agree with your statement, which is why I would only advocate fiat currency by a govt. such as we have in the U.S. where the will of the people is (largely, at least) represented.
- lowkey 17y ago"a govt. such as we have in the U.S. where the will of the people is (largely, at least) represented" Really? The majority of the American people believe that the top two economic priorities of our nation are to perpetuate endless war and give all the rest of the money to international bankers? I reject your premise and find it has no merit.
- jeromec 17y ago> The majority of the American people believe that the top two economic priorities of our nation are to perpetuate endless war The American people elected President Obama. Did you not see his speech about Afghanistan last night? He contradicts the endless war notion directly. I've looked it up for you: (23:00 to 25:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLVqhsLgIw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLVqhsLgIw
- nandemo 17y agoA similar theft happened in Brazil in 1990. It wasn't done by a crazy dictator. In fact it was right after the first democratic presidential election in decades. All investments, CDs, savings accounts in excess of around U$1000 were "frozen". It didn't affect the masses, who didn't have bank accounts anyway. But the middle-class was screwed.
- forinti 17y agoYou are right, Collor wasn't a dictator. But he did do some things right, like starting the process of opening Brazil's economy, which in the 80's was more closed than those of the communist bloc. I wouldn't ever think of supporting him, though.