6 ms·

Argh, we really need to get Octave-Forge off SF. Octave itself is hosted on GNU servers, but all of the Octave-Forge add-on packages are in SF. The thing is, t

by jordigh 11y ago

Argh, we really need to get Octave-Forge off SF. Octave itself is hosted on GNU servers, but all of the Octave-Forge add-on packages are in SF. The thing is, there isn't really anything that easy to move to. No, no github, because we don't like git. We have a bunch of Mercurial repos. We could try moving them to bitbucket, but this also leaves the question of what to to do with our webpage hosting, which is currently on SF. And no matter what we decide doing, it's all a bunch of work that nobody really wants to do. At least when SF first approached us with their "revenue sharing" bullshit we refused. I think this means our downloads are clean so far.

mdekkers 11y ago
> At least when SF first approached us with their "revenue sharing" bullshit we refused. I think this means our downloads are clean so far. I think it means they just get to keep more money...?
- jordigh 11y ago
  I really don't see any malicious downloads here. Do you? http://sourceforge.net/projects/octave/files/Octave%20Forge%20Packages/Individual%20Package%20Releases/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/octave/files/Octave%20Forge%...
  - eoi 11y ago
    I clicked one of the legitimate downloads. The link takes you to a new page and waits a few seconds before starting the download. The most prominent element of this page, centered just below the header, is a large bright green "Start Download" button. That button is part of an advertisement, but is blatantly designed to get the majority of its clicks from users who intended to download software from the project hosted on SF. I see it as a malicious download. I realize you may have been referring specifically to the recent SF malware bundling, but I want to stress that this ad came up for me on my first try clicking one of those links. Ad's like that have been regular on SF for years; it's impossible to believe that they have made it a priority to prevent them. The opposite seems more likely: the page design minimizes the legitimate controls and emphasizes the scam link. Even if I know the installer is free of opt out malware I would hesitate to send a SF link to a friend or family member. The clearest call to action they are likely to see is a malicious download impersonating the software they want.
mhurron 11y ago
> it's all a bunch of work that nobody really wants to do A lot of people don't want to do things they have to do. It's a question of if you're going to wait for SF to hyjack your downloads or move preemptivly. Also, apperently bitbucket will host static pages, I don't know if that works for you.
JoshTriplett 11y ago
> No, no github, because we don't like git. We have a bunch of Mercurial repos. Any particular reason? > We could try moving them to bitbucket, but this also leaves the question of what to to do with our webpage hosting, which is currently on SF. You could move your repositories to bitbucket but mirror the single repository for your webpage content to GitHub to use their hosting. (And if that repository is currently Mercurial, see git-cinnabar by Mike Hommey: https://github.com/glandium/git-cinnabar/ https://github.com/glandium/git-cinnabar/ ) Or, it looks like bitbucket may have a similar feature: http://pages.bitbucket.org/ http://pages.bitbucket.org/
- jordigh 11y ago
  > Any particular reason? Lots of reasons. I'd rather not go into an argument about it. It's not something that can be fixed: git is a no-go for us. > but mirror the single repository for your webpage content to GitHub to use their hosting. I'd rather break free, not change masters.
  - geofft 11y ago
    > I'd rather break free, not change masters. Unless you have the volunteer army necessary to run the hosting yourself, you're going to be changing to a new master anyway. You just need to make sure it's a master you can leave at any moment. So get a domain name and point it at GitHub Pages, and deal with git for the timebeing. At any point (either if GitHub goes bad, or someone's enthusiastic about setting up something else), you can repoint that domain name to another host, far more easily than you can change octave.sf.net to point somewhere else. I agree that switching to octave.github.io would not actually help anything other than the immediate problem.
    - jordigh 11y ago
      Well, we do have those volunteers/employees on the GNU servers. We also can pay for our own hosting. We'll probably go one of those routes.
    - nadams 11y ago
geofft 11y ago
Can you use Alioth? If you have a few Debian developers involved, it should be straightforward to set up a project and get accounts for everyone else, and it's very much like SourceForge. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/03/msg00024.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/03/msg00... "We'll approve ... free software/documentation where a Debian developer is heavily involved (part of the core team for example). The project request should ideally be done by a Debian developer." Alternatively, can you get your webpage hosting onto gnu.org?
- jordigh 11y ago
  We actually have quite of a good rapport with our Debian packagers... so perhaps moving to Alioth could be a possibility, even though Octave itself is not a Debian package per se. As for GNU, the problem is that we only have static sites there. It's not a huge problem, but it might be a good solution.
ageofwant 11y ago
Look, just suck it up. git has won. The sooner you get to grip with this the easier your life will be. There are honourable and good fights and then there are stupid. Don't cling to hg like a retard to a lolly. Let it go.
- pjc50 11y ago
  Well, that's a good way to entrench the non-git position.
Frondo 11y ago
Bitbucket does static site hosting! https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/BITBUCKET/Publishing+a+Website+on+Bitbucket https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/BITBUCKET/Publishin... Would that work for Octave-forge?
wzdd 11y ago
Mercurial works well with github, as it can communicate with git servers. I've used github in the past with several Mercurial projects without issue. So you can move to github and keep hg.
BFay 11y ago
Have you looked into hosting from universities? I recently read about plans to move Pure Data (flow-based audio programming environment) to Oregon State University's Open Source Labs. Maybe they would be open to hosting Octave-Forge. http://osuosl.org/services/hosting http://osuosl.org/services/hosting

by jordigh 11y ago

mdekkers 11y ago

> At least when SF first approached us with their "revenue sharing" bullshit we refused. I think this means our downloads are clean so far. I think it means they just get to keep more money...?

jordigh 11y ago
I really don't see any malicious downloads here. Do you? http://sourceforge.net/projects/octave/files/Octave%20Forge%20Packages/Individual%20Package%20Releases/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/octave/files/Octave%20Forge%...
- eoi 11y ago
  I clicked one of the legitimate downloads. The link takes you to a new page and waits a few seconds before starting the download. The most prominent element of this page, centered just below the header, is a large bright green "Start Download" button. That button is part of an advertisement, but is blatantly designed to get the majority of its clicks from users who intended to download software from the project hosted on SF. I see it as a malicious download. I realize you may have been referring specifically to the recent SF malware bundling, but I want to stress that this ad came up for me on my first try clicking one of those links. Ad's like that have been regular on SF for years; it's impossible to believe that they have made it a priority to prevent them. The opposite seems more likely: the page design minimizes the legitimate controls and emphasizes the scam link. Even if I know the installer is free of opt out malware I would hesitate to send a SF link to a friend or family member. The clearest call to action they are likely to see is a malicious download impersonating the software they want.

mhurron 11y ago

> it's all a bunch of work that nobody really wants to do A lot of people don't want to do things they have to do. It's a question of if you're going to wait for SF to hyjack your downloads or move preemptivly. Also, apperently bitbucket will host static pages, I don't know if that works for you.

JoshTriplett 11y ago

> No, no github, because we don't like git. We have a bunch of Mercurial repos. Any particular reason? > We could try moving them to bitbucket, but this also leaves the question of what to to do with our webpage hosting, which is currently on SF. You could move your repositories to bitbucket but mirror the single repository for your webpage content to GitHub to use their hosting. (And if that repository is currently Mercurial, see git-cinnabar by Mike Hommey: https://github.com/glandium/git-cinnabar/ https://github.com/glandium/git-cinnabar/ ) Or, it looks like bitbucket may have a similar feature: http://pages.bitbucket.org/ http://pages.bitbucket.org/

jordigh 11y ago
> Any particular reason? Lots of reasons. I'd rather not go into an argument about it. It's not something that can be fixed: git is a no-go for us. > but mirror the single repository for your webpage content to GitHub to use their hosting. I'd rather break free, not change masters.
- geofft 11y ago
  > I'd rather break free, not change masters. Unless you have the volunteer army necessary to run the hosting yourself, you're going to be changing to a new master anyway. You just need to make sure it's a master you can leave at any moment. So get a domain name and point it at GitHub Pages, and deal with git for the timebeing. At any point (either if GitHub goes bad, or someone's enthusiastic about setting up something else), you can repoint that domain name to another host, far more easily than you can change octave.sf.net to point somewhere else. I agree that switching to octave.github.io would not actually help anything other than the immediate problem.
  - jordigh 11y ago
    Well, we do have those volunteers/employees on the GNU servers. We also can pay for our own hosting. We'll probably go one of those routes.
  - nadams 11y ago

geofft 11y ago

Can you use Alioth? If you have a few Debian developers involved, it should be straightforward to set up a project and get accounts for everyone else, and it's very much like SourceForge. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/03/msg00024.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/03/msg00... "We'll approve ... free software/documentation where a Debian developer is heavily involved (part of the core team for example). The project request should ideally be done by a Debian developer." Alternatively, can you get your webpage hosting onto gnu.org?

jordigh 11y ago
We actually have quite of a good rapport with our Debian packagers... so perhaps moving to Alioth could be a possibility, even though Octave itself is not a Debian package per se. As for GNU, the problem is that we only have static sites there. It's not a huge problem, but it might be a good solution.

ageofwant 11y ago

Look, just suck it up. git has won. The sooner you get to grip with this the easier your life will be. There are honourable and good fights and then there are stupid. Don't cling to hg like a retard to a lolly. Let it go.

pjc50 11y ago
Well, that's a good way to entrench the non-git position.

Frondo 11y ago

Bitbucket does static site hosting! https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/BITBUCKET/Publishing+a+Website+on+Bitbucket https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/BITBUCKET/Publishin... Would that work for Octave-forge?

wzdd 11y ago

Mercurial works well with github, as it can communicate with git servers. I've used github in the past with several Mercurial projects without issue. So you can move to github and keep hg.

BFay 11y ago

Have you looked into hosting from universities? I recently read about plans to move Pure Data (flow-based audio programming environment) to Oregon State University's Open Source Labs. Maybe they would be open to hosting Octave-Forge. http://osuosl.org/services/hosting http://osuosl.org/services/hosting