4 ms·

Of course there are biases against minorities. It's a big problem, particularly with respect to police violence. However, if you want to completely derail a r

by jnbiche 11y ago

Of course there are biases against minorities. It's a big problem, particularly with respect to police violence. However, if you want to completely derail a reasonable discussion with a white male, just use that phrase: "check your privilege". It'll work every time, guaranteed. I'm open to listening to reasonable arguments for or against AA, but I'm not going to be told "check your privilege" by anyone and continue to take them seriously; "check your privilege" is a phrase which erases the individual and invalidates any personal struggles they may have gone through (extreme poverty, abuse, disability, learning disability, etc.). Even by itself, "privilege" is a really terrible, loaded word. People like George Bush are privileged -- most white people are not.

pessimizer 11y ago
Privilege is relative in general, not just relative to you. Somebody is to you as you are to George Bush. I apologise if what I just typed seems obvious, but it seems to contradict your assertion that only Presidents of the United States of America are privileged.
- jnbiche 11y ago
  > I apologise if what I just typed seems obvious, No need to apologize, since what you've typed is far from obvious. To begin with, I did not assert that only Presidents are privileged. Not even close. For example, I would consider neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama to come from privilege like George Bush. And George Bush would have been privileged whether or not he was president. I would have thought that was obvious. And if you're going to dive into relativity of life suckiness, they surely the white refugee child from a poverty-stricken family in the Caucasus, whose mother and father have been gunned down and most of her village killed, would be relatively unprivileged compared to almost any American, regardless of skin color. Same for the refugee child from war-torn Afghanistan, usually ranked as one of the very poorest and unhealthiest countries in the world, unless you decide to exempt South Asians from the magical category of "privileged".
  - pessimizer 11y ago
    >People like George Bush are privileged I had to pick some meaning for this phrase to have. The 'like' here is problematic, because we are all like George Bush in many ways. What did you mean to say here? >And if you're going to dive into relativity of life suckiness, they surely the white refugee child from a poverty-stricken family in the Caucasus, whose mother and father have been gunned down and most of her village killed, would be relatively unprivileged compared to almost any American, regardless of skin color. Same for the refugee child from war-torn Afghanistan, usually ranked as one of the very poorest and unhealthiest countries in the world, unless you decide to exempt South Asians from the magical category of "privileged". Yes, these are people who would think that you or I are privileged. I'm wondering why you think they're wrong.
task_queue 11y ago
> extreme poverty, abuse, disability, This was me and, in America, I am still more privileged than a black person in my position when it comes to education, loans, work, law enforcement and discrimination in general.
- tsotha 11y ago
  You have no way of knowing whether or not this is true. The way people come to the conclusion it's harder for black people to get loans is to throw out all the traditional lending criteria like credit history, income, and assets.
  - task_queue 11y ago
    I[0] don't[1]? [2] [3] [4] [5] -- [0] http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/black-hispanic-entrepreneurs-discriminated-against-when-seeking-small-business-loans/2014/06/03/70059184-ea86-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/bla... [1] http://newpittsburghcourieronline.com/2015/05/27/blacks-least-likely-to-get-business-loan-from-banks/ http://newpittsburghcourieronline.com/2015/05/27/blacks-leas... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/nyregion/15subprime.html?ex=1350187200&en=a9978e04a9864642&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/nyregion/15subprime.html?e... [3] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/minorities-more-likely-to_n_306870.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/minorities-more-lik... [4] http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/02/09/Study-shows-its-more-difficult-for-black-Americans-to-get-a-mortgage-loan-than-other-groups/2731423533198/ http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/02/09/Study-shows-its-mo... [5] http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/local/well-off-blacks-denied-loans-more-than-low-incom-1/nNBwY/ http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/local/well-off-b... dayton specific
    - tsotha 11y ago
      Nope. Like I said. You can only get there by ignoring lending standards. EDIT: Did you even read the links you posted, or did you just do a quick Google search and copy links without reading?
tsotha 11y ago
>Even by itself, "privilege" is a really terrible, loaded word. People like George Bush are privileged -- most white people are not. Yep. It's the apex fallacy.
dasil003 11y ago
> However, if you want to completely derail a reasonable discussion with a white male, just use that phrase: "check your privilege". This is a typically a response of frustration when said white male does not realize that his entire worldview is shaped by never having experienced the situations that lead to the other's viewpoint. If you want to have empathy sometimes you need to swallow your pride and just shut up and listen for a while. Because, frankly, no matter how much you believe in your own intellectual honesty, if you are a white male you don't know what it's like to be a woman or an oppressed minority, and you are better off for it. To say that only upper crust trust-fund twits like George Bush are privileged and all other white people have no privilege demonstrates that you emphatically do not understand what white male privilege is. Sure it hurts to be dehumanized that way, but guess what, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the dehumanization that any black man in a major US city has experienced by the time he turns 18.

by jnbiche 11y ago

pessimizer 11y ago

Privilege is relative in general, not just relative to you. Somebody is to you as you are to George Bush. I apologise if what I just typed seems obvious, but it seems to contradict your assertion that only Presidents of the United States of America are privileged.

jnbiche 11y ago
> I apologise if what I just typed seems obvious, No need to apologize, since what you've typed is far from obvious. To begin with, I did not assert that only Presidents are privileged. Not even close. For example, I would consider neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama to come from privilege like George Bush. And George Bush would have been privileged whether or not he was president. I would have thought that was obvious. And if you're going to dive into relativity of life suckiness, they surely the white refugee child from a poverty-stricken family in the Caucasus, whose mother and father have been gunned down and most of her village killed, would be relatively unprivileged compared to almost any American, regardless of skin color. Same for the refugee child from war-torn Afghanistan, usually ranked as one of the very poorest and unhealthiest countries in the world, unless you decide to exempt South Asians from the magical category of "privileged".
- pessimizer 11y ago
  >People like George Bush are privileged I had to pick some meaning for this phrase to have. The 'like' here is problematic, because we are all like George Bush in many ways. What did you mean to say here? >And if you're going to dive into relativity of life suckiness, they surely the white refugee child from a poverty-stricken family in the Caucasus, whose mother and father have been gunned down and most of her village killed, would be relatively unprivileged compared to almost any American, regardless of skin color. Same for the refugee child from war-torn Afghanistan, usually ranked as one of the very poorest and unhealthiest countries in the world, unless you decide to exempt South Asians from the magical category of "privileged". Yes, these are people who would think that you or I are privileged. I'm wondering why you think they're wrong.

task_queue 11y ago

> extreme poverty, abuse, disability, This was me and, in America, I am still more privileged than a black person in my position when it comes to education, loans, work, law enforcement and discrimination in general.

tsotha 11y ago
You have no way of knowing whether or not this is true. The way people come to the conclusion it's harder for black people to get loans is to throw out all the traditional lending criteria like credit history, income, and assets.
- task_queue 11y ago
  I[0] don't[1]? [2] [3] [4] [5] -- [0] http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/black-hispanic-entrepreneurs-discriminated-against-when-seeking-small-business-loans/2014/06/03/70059184-ea86-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/bla... [1] http://newpittsburghcourieronline.com/2015/05/27/blacks-least-likely-to-get-business-loan-from-banks/ http://newpittsburghcourieronline.com/2015/05/27/blacks-leas... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/nyregion/15subprime.html?ex=1350187200&en=a9978e04a9864642&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/nyregion/15subprime.html?e... [3] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/minorities-more-likely-to_n_306870.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/minorities-more-lik... [4] http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/02/09/Study-shows-its-more-difficult-for-black-Americans-to-get-a-mortgage-loan-than-other-groups/2731423533198/ http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/02/09/Study-shows-its-mo... [5] http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/local/well-off-blacks-denied-loans-more-than-low-incom-1/nNBwY/ http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/local/well-off-b... dayton specific
  - tsotha 11y ago
    Nope. Like I said. You can only get there by ignoring lending standards. EDIT: Did you even read the links you posted, or did you just do a quick Google search and copy links without reading?

tsotha 11y ago

>Even by itself, "privilege" is a really terrible, loaded word. People like George Bush are privileged -- most white people are not. Yep. It's the apex fallacy.

dasil003 11y ago

> However, if you want to completely derail a reasonable discussion with a white male, just use that phrase: "check your privilege". This is a typically a response of frustration when said white male does not realize that his entire worldview is shaped by never having experienced the situations that lead to the other's viewpoint. If you want to have empathy sometimes you need to swallow your pride and just shut up and listen for a while. Because, frankly, no matter how much you believe in your own intellectual honesty, if you are a white male you don't know what it's like to be a woman or an oppressed minority, and you are better off for it. To say that only upper crust trust-fund twits like George Bush are privileged and all other white people have no privilege demonstrates that you emphatically do not understand what white male privilege is. Sure it hurts to be dehumanized that way, but guess what, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the dehumanization that any black man in a major US city has experienced by the time he turns 18.