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There's that explicit pipeline for marginalized people. However, there's long been a much more powerful implicit pipeline in the form of unconscious biases, old

There's that explicit pipeline for marginalized people. However, there's long been a much more powerful implicit pipeline in the form of unconscious biases, old boys' clubs, and the like.

pcthrowaway450 11y ago
The old boy's club consisting of Asians, Indians, and Whites?
- thirdtruck 11y ago
  Isn't there a pending lawsuit even now about Asian engineers being categorically passed over for management promotions in favor of their white peers?
mc32 11y ago
The problem with the old boys's club is that it's essentially networking. In other words Japan Finland and China all would have this and is has little to do with bias. It's basically networking. Yes there are exclusionary clubs which bar specific classes of minorities but on the whole they don't work that way. It's like saying frats are biased. Yes they are and the world would be better off without frats and their counterparts elsewhere, but I don't think they are mainly perpetuating racial discrimination. Rather they work as a job network and business network for their members. I could be wrong. If so illustrate.
- thirdtruck 11y ago
  Have ... have you missed all the recent news of frats being sanctioned and branches even being closed down for racist behavior? There was one frat in the south that was paying an old black man just to pick cotton. Seriously!
  - mc32 11y ago
    That's a good point. There indeed are some which exhibit this behavior, but that's not their main purpose. the purpose is to create networks. the same with black fraternities. They create networks for their members to plug into. Yes, we know many of them engage in peripheral racist and misogynistic behavior, but those things are sideshows. My point is forming these groups which foment cohesion and support for their members are rather common across cultures so to paint them as 'old boys's' networks is a misunderstanding of human nature. Basically networks may be used to keep the other out --but that's not why or how they are formed. They are formed out of human nature to form groups which help their members --not that different from community groups, or PTAs, etc.
tsotha 11y ago
And this means I should accept a statistically inferior doctor to treat my heart attack... why?
- hackinthebochs 11y ago
  "statistically inferior" is meaningless when it comes to individual capability.
  - thirdtruck 11y ago
    Exactly. "Women are shorter than men on average," but that doesn't make a 7'2" woman any shorter in absolute terms.
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    - tsotha 11y ago
      Exactly. I can look at a 7'2" woman and see that she's tall. What do I know about medicine? If my life depended on picking a tall person hidden behind a screen, would I choose a woman or a man? This is what's stupid about so-called "affirmative action". They've set the situation up such that it's rational to make sure your doctor is white or east Asian.
      - hackinthebochs 11y ago
        Not really. Sure, statistics on whole populations favor whites and asians when it comes to test scores. But any doctor you may come in contact with has passed many tests of knowledge and ability at all levels of their education and career. They have seen many patients, have not had their medical license revoked, can still receive medical insurance, so on and so forth. Such a selection of individuals will not follow the distribution of intelligence one sees in the general population. At this point you are just as likely to have a crackpot white doctor as a crackpot black doctor.

There's that explicit pipeline for marginalized people. However, there's long been a much more powerful implicit pipeline in the form of unconscious biases, old boys' clubs, and the like.

pcthrowaway450 11y ago

The old boy's club consisting of Asians, Indians, and Whites?

thirdtruck 11y ago
Isn't there a pending lawsuit even now about Asian engineers being categorically passed over for management promotions in favor of their white peers?

mc32 11y ago

The problem with the old boys's club is that it's essentially networking. In other words Japan Finland and China all would have this and is has little to do with bias. It's basically networking. Yes there are exclusionary clubs which bar specific classes of minorities but on the whole they don't work that way. It's like saying frats are biased. Yes they are and the world would be better off without frats and their counterparts elsewhere, but I don't think they are mainly perpetuating racial discrimination. Rather they work as a job network and business network for their members. I could be wrong. If so illustrate.

thirdtruck 11y ago
Have ... have you missed all the recent news of frats being sanctioned and branches even being closed down for racist behavior? There was one frat in the south that was paying an old black man just to pick cotton. Seriously!
- mc32 11y ago
  That's a good point. There indeed are some which exhibit this behavior, but that's not their main purpose. the purpose is to create networks. the same with black fraternities. They create networks for their members to plug into. Yes, we know many of them engage in peripheral racist and misogynistic behavior, but those things are sideshows. My point is forming these groups which foment cohesion and support for their members are rather common across cultures so to paint them as 'old boys's' networks is a misunderstanding of human nature. Basically networks may be used to keep the other out --but that's not why or how they are formed. They are formed out of human nature to form groups which help their members --not that different from community groups, or PTAs, etc.

tsotha 11y ago

And this means I should accept a statistically inferior doctor to treat my heart attack... why?

hackinthebochs 11y ago
"statistically inferior" is meaningless when it comes to individual capability.
- thirdtruck 11y ago
  Exactly. "Women are shorter than men on average," but that doesn't make a 7'2" woman any shorter in absolute terms.
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  - tsotha 11y ago
    Exactly. I can look at a 7'2" woman and see that she's tall. What do I know about medicine? If my life depended on picking a tall person hidden behind a screen, would I choose a woman or a man? This is what's stupid about so-called "affirmative action". They've set the situation up such that it's rational to make sure your doctor is white or east Asian.
    - hackinthebochs 11y ago
      Not really. Sure, statistics on whole populations favor whites and asians when it comes to test scores. But any doctor you may come in contact with has passed many tests of knowledge and ability at all levels of their education and career. They have seen many patients, have not had their medical license revoked, can still receive medical insurance, so on and so forth. Such a selection of individuals will not follow the distribution of intelligence one sees in the general population. At this point you are just as likely to have a crackpot white doctor as a crackpot black doctor.