6 ms·

Affirmative action is bad because jerks like the author will do totally unethical things to abuse it, and the same jerks will be resentful of other minorities t

by gkop 11y ago

Affirmative action is bad because jerks like the author will do totally unethical things to abuse it, and the same jerks will be resentful of other minorities that affirmative action helps? If this is the best he can come up with arguing against affirmative action, well maybe affirmative action is actually ok.

justizin 11y ago
Yeah, the only way an individual who isn't black is harmed by affirmative action is if they were only going to get some opportunity by a hair anyway. This tugs at the complex notion of, "well represented minorities". The reason the author didn't get an edge for being of Indian descent is because Ivy League schools and top-paying careers have a representation of Indian and Asian Americans that is much nearer (without claiming to have memorized numbers) their portion of the overall populace than African Americans and Latinos, and Affirmative Action is about breaking the glass ceiling.
- gkop 11y ago
  For the record, I think it's a complicated subject, and we can always do better than the status quo. But this article is not helping the cause of those that want to end affirmative action; it identifies their cause with jerks.
- pessimizer 11y ago
  > Yeah, the only way an individual who isn't black is harmed by affirmative action is if they were only going to get some opportunity by a hair anyway. That's the source of my fascination with university anti-affirmative action activists: their cases in court rest on the claim that they were less qualified than every single person of an identical racial designation that was actually accepted to the school.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    I don't see how that's relevant.
alextgordon 11y ago
If you actually read the article, it says he stated his social background precisely on the application. They chose to ignore it and focused on the amount of melanin in his skin.
- gkop 11y ago
  Isn't that the definition of affirmative action?
  - alextgordon 11y ago
    It's the definition of racism for sure!
DanBlake 11y ago
I would argue the problem with AA is not that people might abuse it, but because its a fundamentally flawed system that starts to prefer certain races to one another. For instance, asians are definitely a minority in the US but are extremely heavily discriminated against when applying to colleges. There is even a lawsuit against harvard right now that shows how harvard denied many asian students in favor of other minority's. So, thats one issue with AA. The other is simply that fields like medicine should have only the best of the best getting through. Why should a native american kid who did shitty all through high school get to go to med school and a asian kid who got a perfect 4.0 and did extra curricular things not. This is making america worse and in many cases further pushes a racial divide agenda that says "minority's cant hack it in the real world". What is worrying is that the truly great minority leaders/thinking/doers/etc.. will have their accomplishments completely invalidated by their non-minority peers for thinking they got to where they are just because of their racial makeup. Just to see the above in action, look at this reddit thread : https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/2zun6p/accepted_into_medical_school/ https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/2zun6p/accepted_int...
- gkop 11y ago
  I agree with you that liability for abuse is not a significant problem with AA. I am not convinced one way or the other on the overall cost/benefit, but lean in favor of AA because it helps with my white guilt.
- pcthrowaway450 11y ago
  Don't worry Dan, the word 'minority' has been redefined to not include Asians. I was informed of this the other week by an Asian friend who's a college student. She mentioned it in passing like it was just basic knowledge.
  - theorique 11y ago
    People use the term "NAM", or non-Asian minority, to separate out minorities who are affirmative-action target populations from non-Whites as a whole.
  - 11y ago
pcthrowaway450 11y ago
Seems that there's a pipeline of affirmative action programs throughout the medical profession starting with admission to college and ending at the hospital where there are quotas for hiring black and latino doctors. That's an absolutely terrifying state of affairs. I want the best qualified people to treat me and my loved ones. Edit: Seems that the more 'mainstream' crowd (read reddit-esque PC liberals) have arrived at this article and I'm now being downvoted (without any responses or counter arguments). As a result I've been rate-limited and I can no longer post. Cheers!
- pcthrowaway6 11y ago
  I agree with you in principle, but one thing to keep in mind about the medical community is that there is a legitimate need for broadly diverse medical professionals in a hospital. The reason is for community outreach -- someone of the same background (say, socio-racial-economic) can communicate with the patients easier and have a better outcome for the patients' health. I am sympathetic to the desire for the best qualified people and affirmative action truly does scare me, but medicine does need a bit of special consideration here, in my opinion.
  - pcthrowaway450 11y ago
    Yes I agree with the community outreach angle. I'm not sure that outweighs the costs of AA. Imagine your mom is diagnosed with cancer and you take her in for treatment. In walks a black doctor who will be overseeing her care. It is obviously possible that this doctor is just as qualified as any other, but given AA it's also more likely that this doctor - as opposed to a random indian or white or asian doctor - is less qualified. So now what do you do? It's your mom's health on the line here. We're literally talking about peoples' wellbeing potentially being sacrificed to the alter of political correctness.
    - thirdtruck 11y ago
      Ignoring that the black doctor (and his/her children, and their children) may have only been able to escape the cycle of poverty and its innumerable harms to health because of AA.

by gkop 11y ago

justizin 11y ago

Yeah, the only way an individual who isn't black is harmed by affirmative action is if they were only going to get some opportunity by a hair anyway. This tugs at the complex notion of, "well represented minorities". The reason the author didn't get an edge for being of Indian descent is because Ivy League schools and top-paying careers have a representation of Indian and Asian Americans that is much nearer (without claiming to have memorized numbers) their portion of the overall populace than African Americans and Latinos, and Affirmative Action is about breaking the glass ceiling.

gkop 11y ago
For the record, I think it's a complicated subject, and we can always do better than the status quo. But this article is not helping the cause of those that want to end affirmative action; it identifies their cause with jerks.
pessimizer 11y ago
> Yeah, the only way an individual who isn't black is harmed by affirmative action is if they were only going to get some opportunity by a hair anyway. That's the source of my fascination with university anti-affirmative action activists: their cases in court rest on the claim that they were less qualified than every single person of an identical racial designation that was actually accepted to the school.
- tsotha 11y ago
  I don't see how that's relevant.

alextgordon 11y ago

If you actually read the article, it says he stated his social background precisely on the application. They chose to ignore it and focused on the amount of melanin in his skin.

gkop 11y ago
Isn't that the definition of affirmative action?
- alextgordon 11y ago
  It's the definition of racism for sure!

DanBlake 11y ago

I would argue the problem with AA is not that people might abuse it, but because its a fundamentally flawed system that starts to prefer certain races to one another. For instance, asians are definitely a minority in the US but are extremely heavily discriminated against when applying to colleges. There is even a lawsuit against harvard right now that shows how harvard denied many asian students in favor of other minority's. So, thats one issue with AA. The other is simply that fields like medicine should have only the best of the best getting through. Why should a native american kid who did shitty all through high school get to go to med school and a asian kid who got a perfect 4.0 and did extra curricular things not. This is making america worse and in many cases further pushes a racial divide agenda that says "minority's cant hack it in the real world". What is worrying is that the truly great minority leaders/thinking/doers/etc.. will have their accomplishments completely invalidated by their non-minority peers for thinking they got to where they are just because of their racial makeup. Just to see the above in action, look at this reddit thread : https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/2zun6p/accepted_into_medical_school/ https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/2zun6p/accepted_int...

gkop 11y ago
I agree with you that liability for abuse is not a significant problem with AA. I am not convinced one way or the other on the overall cost/benefit, but lean in favor of AA because it helps with my white guilt.
pcthrowaway450 11y ago
Don't worry Dan, the word 'minority' has been redefined to not include Asians. I was informed of this the other week by an Asian friend who's a college student. She mentioned it in passing like it was just basic knowledge.
- theorique 11y ago
  People use the term "NAM", or non-Asian minority, to separate out minorities who are affirmative-action target populations from non-Whites as a whole.
- 11y ago

pcthrowaway450 11y ago

Seems that there's a pipeline of affirmative action programs throughout the medical profession starting with admission to college and ending at the hospital where there are quotas for hiring black and latino doctors. That's an absolutely terrifying state of affairs. I want the best qualified people to treat me and my loved ones. Edit: Seems that the more 'mainstream' crowd (read reddit-esque PC liberals) have arrived at this article and I'm now being downvoted (without any responses or counter arguments). As a result I've been rate-limited and I can no longer post. Cheers!

pcthrowaway6 11y ago
I agree with you in principle, but one thing to keep in mind about the medical community is that there is a legitimate need for broadly diverse medical professionals in a hospital. The reason is for community outreach -- someone of the same background (say, socio-racial-economic) can communicate with the patients easier and have a better outcome for the patients' health. I am sympathetic to the desire for the best qualified people and affirmative action truly does scare me, but medicine does need a bit of special consideration here, in my opinion.
- pcthrowaway450 11y ago
  Yes I agree with the community outreach angle. I'm not sure that outweighs the costs of AA. Imagine your mom is diagnosed with cancer and you take her in for treatment. In walks a black doctor who will be overseeing her care. It is obviously possible that this doctor is just as qualified as any other, but given AA it's also more likely that this doctor - as opposed to a random indian or white or asian doctor - is less qualified. So now what do you do? It's your mom's health on the line here. We're literally talking about peoples' wellbeing potentially being sacrificed to the alter of political correctness.
  - thirdtruck 11y ago
    Ignoring that the black doctor (and his/her children, and their children) may have only been able to escape the cycle of poverty and its innumerable harms to health because of AA.