6 ms·

Let's say for the sake of argument that this shirt -- which was a present from a female friend, by the way -- wasn't appropriate in his workplace. Isn't that so

Let's say for the sake of argument that this shirt -- which was a present from a female friend, by the way -- wasn't appropriate in his workplace. Isn't that something for the people in his workplace (a workplace which had several women in positions of authority, by the way, so there's no reason to think the situation wouldn't have been addressed) to sort out? Was it really necessary to pillory the man as a sexist in worldwide media and force him to make a tearful apology on international television? Can we at least agree that the whole situation was ridiculously blown out of proportion?

wpietri 11y ago
The guy didn't just wear it in his workplace, in which it would be mainly up to his workplace. He wore it while representing a major scientific effort to the world. During a period where we are working very hard to drag our culture out of millennia of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy. And while a great number of people are trying very hard to solve the diversity issues in science. So no, it was not blown out of proportion. He was unlucky in that this is a moment of transition. 25 years ago nobody bothered would have felt safe speaking up, and 25 years from now things will hopefully have changed enough that one mistake won't be emblematic of a major societal problem. But today's today. And today we have a lot of people whose toes have been stepped on all their goddamn lives.
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  Is anyone allowed to disagree with you about whether or not distributed punishment incited by careless journalists and carried out by mobs of bored and uninformed strangers is the best way to "drag our culture out of millennia of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy"? Or does asking questions like that make me a supporter of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy? "And today we have a lot of people whose toes have been stepped on all their goddamn lives." So it's okay to destroy someone who had never been one of the toe-steppers for wearing the wrong shirt? See, this is the thing. You can bang on all you like about the evils of patriarchy, but at the end, you are advocating that random people who at best committed a minor faux pas that should be dealt with in their own workplace should be destroyed by the mob. It's as if I decried the number of people who die in traffic accidents and in response advocate that anyone who gets a speeding ticket get put in front of a firing squad. It's wrong, and you're trying to distract yourself from that fact by pretending that you are somehow bravely fighting the patriarchy by choosing the least intimidating possible target.
  - arrrg 11y ago
    Destroy someone? He still has his job, you know … I mean, what’s this non-sensical hyperbole disconnected from reality? What’s wrong with criticizing someone and saying that what he was doing is not ok?! I mean, what are you even talking about?! The hell. He was representing this mission to the world and he was in that position as an obvious role model and, in that moment, in a public facing role. If we cannot criticize someone like that, who are we allowed to criticize? Also, how disconnected from any resemblance of reality can one comment be. I’m just astonished at you complete hyperbole.
    - 13thLetter 11y ago
      Once again, let's be clear what he did that required criticism -- or, more accurately, furious accusations of sexism from dozens of news outlets, mass public shaming from an angry worldwide mob, and an tearful apology on international television. He wore a shirt. That's what you're energetically defending. Worldwide mobbing, targeting by the media, and a forced public apology reminiscent of misbehaving Party officials. For wearing a shirt. Let's be absolutely clear about this, please.
      - arrrg 11y ago
        Mobbing? Are you serious with this hyperbole? Also, this is not some defenseless guy, caught by some camera on accident. Position of power, public role in that instance – and consequently also the responsibility that comes with that. You act like this is some little defenseless kid, unable to handle one little criticism … and you are constantly blowing the actual response and the actual criticism completely out of proportion, pretending it to be bullying or mobbing or some such bullshit. This was a tiny, tiny, tiny story. (The wailing misogynists made it big, you know.) I think he just might be able to handle a bit of harsh criticism. Because that’s what this was. The horror. (Also, he had hordes of misogynists defending him within seconds, though I doubt he liked that.) I’m absolutely clear about being absolutely in love with free speech and consequently criticizing someone for wearing a dumb shirt. Sure.
        11y ago

wpietri 11y ago

The guy didn't just wear it in his workplace, in which it would be mainly up to his workplace. He wore it while representing a major scientific effort to the world. During a period where we are working very hard to drag our culture out of millennia of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy. And while a great number of people are trying very hard to solve the diversity issues in science. So no, it was not blown out of proportion. He was unlucky in that this is a moment of transition. 25 years ago nobody bothered would have felt safe speaking up, and 25 years from now things will hopefully have changed enough that one mistake won't be emblematic of a major societal problem. But today's today. And today we have a lot of people whose toes have been stepped on all their goddamn lives.

13thLetter 11y ago
Is anyone allowed to disagree with you about whether or not distributed punishment incited by careless journalists and carried out by mobs of bored and uninformed strangers is the best way to "drag our culture out of millennia of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy"? Or does asking questions like that make me a supporter of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy? "And today we have a lot of people whose toes have been stepped on all their goddamn lives." So it's okay to destroy someone who had never been one of the toe-steppers for wearing the wrong shirt? See, this is the thing. You can bang on all you like about the evils of patriarchy, but at the end, you are advocating that random people who at best committed a minor faux pas that should be dealt with in their own workplace should be destroyed by the mob. It's as if I decried the number of people who die in traffic accidents and in response advocate that anyone who gets a speeding ticket get put in front of a firing squad. It's wrong, and you're trying to distract yourself from that fact by pretending that you are somehow bravely fighting the patriarchy by choosing the least intimidating possible target.
- arrrg 11y ago
  Destroy someone? He still has his job, you know … I mean, what’s this non-sensical hyperbole disconnected from reality? What’s wrong with criticizing someone and saying that what he was doing is not ok?! I mean, what are you even talking about?! The hell. He was representing this mission to the world and he was in that position as an obvious role model and, in that moment, in a public facing role. If we cannot criticize someone like that, who are we allowed to criticize? Also, how disconnected from any resemblance of reality can one comment be. I’m just astonished at you complete hyperbole.
  - 13thLetter 11y ago
    Once again, let's be clear what he did that required criticism -- or, more accurately, furious accusations of sexism from dozens of news outlets, mass public shaming from an angry worldwide mob, and an tearful apology on international television. He wore a shirt. That's what you're energetically defending. Worldwide mobbing, targeting by the media, and a forced public apology reminiscent of misbehaving Party officials. For wearing a shirt. Let's be absolutely clear about this, please.
    - arrrg 11y ago
      Mobbing? Are you serious with this hyperbole? Also, this is not some defenseless guy, caught by some camera on accident. Position of power, public role in that instance – and consequently also the responsibility that comes with that. You act like this is some little defenseless kid, unable to handle one little criticism … and you are constantly blowing the actual response and the actual criticism completely out of proportion, pretending it to be bullying or mobbing or some such bullshit. This was a tiny, tiny, tiny story. (The wailing misogynists made it big, you know.) I think he just might be able to handle a bit of harsh criticism. Because that’s what this was. The horror. (Also, he had hordes of misogynists defending him within seconds, though I doubt he liked that.) I’m absolutely clear about being absolutely in love with free speech and consequently criticizing someone for wearing a dumb shirt. Sure.
      - 11y ago