4 ms·

You guys. Get a grip. It's his company, he built it, you didn't. He makes the rules, you don't. If you don't like that, then go build your own site that has

You guys. Get a grip. It's his company, he built it, you didn't. He makes the rules, you don't. If you don't like that, then go build your own site that has the same level of success and define your own rules. And deal with all the people who tell you you are doing it wrong, that's a lot of fun. For the record, I have no connection to craigslist other than admiring it. I'm flaming because I've got my own company and I deal with this crap as well and it's annoying. If you don't like the way someone else is doing it then either go do it better or shut the fuck up.

skolor 17y ago
If someone is complaining about your service, it may be a good idea to listen to them. All of the "Blah, blah, if you want it you should be able to create your own super successful site" posts are really rather pointless. Yes, site/company owners have to make some tough decisions about their product, and how users can access/use it. There are going to be complaints, and there are going to be users who disagree. Telling your users to "shut the fuck up" when they're saying they disagree when you've gone from supporting them to destroying what they've built without telling them anything about it seems to be rather harsh. Its easy to come out and say "Oh, he can do anything he wants because its his company, and if you don't like it just leave". It takes a hell of a lot more effort to actually put the finger on why a move like this (blocking an entire site which hosts various mashups, over 2000 targeting just Craigslist, without notifying the users or having any real method of notifying the "developers" why it was done, or what they can do about it) and trying to point out to the people who actually could do something about it. As a tip, if you're getting that much flak from your users that you have to start flaming users on the internet about it, you're probably doing something wrong.
- luckydude 17y ago
  Thanks for the tip. The pointer to your successful site is? Sorry, cheap shot but... And your claim that you or the other folks are a user is based on what? Craig takes care of the _actual_ users, the people who buy/sell stuff there, use it for job listings/postings, etc. Your point about listening to your users would be valid if you actually were one. Or better yet represented a whole class of users. The whining here comes from a set of people who are leaches. They are people who want to leverage craigslist.org. Whether it is for profit or for fun or for fame, it's leveraging the work of someone else. In no way are those people "users" of craigslist.
  - JMiao 17y ago
    i've been thinking about this topic (users, not craigslist) a lot over the past few weeks. thanks.
jacoblyles 17y ago
They're a monopolist with a bad product, like Microsoft, but they have a crunchy image so bay area hackers love them, despite the fact that they are freezing a whole sector of business in the dark ages (again, like Microsoft). Everything you wrote could have been used as a defense of Windows 98, or IE 6. You may be defending a shitty user experience with a monopolist position, but we love you Craig because at least you hate capitalism.
- sirrocco 17y ago
  "Everything you wrote could have been used as a defense of IE6." Well ... that's how we have Firefox now isn't it ? I mean people went ahead and built something better.
  - mnemonicsloth 17y ago
    Hence the first sentence of his post about Craigslist's crunchy image. "Let's get rid of IE6" is a great way to rally people. "Let's get rid of that bastard Craig Newmark," not so much.
    - scelerat 17y ago
      People like Craigslist. People like Craig. Hard to hate on something useful, free, and fronted by likable people.
      - jacoblyles 17y ago
        Something that wastes millions of hours per day and prevents anyone from replacing it with something better by virtue of its monopoly position and hostility to mash-ups? Yes, I can find the time to hate on it.
- luckydude 17y ago
  As a long time user of craigslist I disagree with the "bad product" characterization. I find their website extremely pleasant to use, much like google. When will people learn that content is king and all that flash/image/whatever crud may look great but rarely does anything but distract from the actual content. But rather than asserting that it is a fine product (which it is, though I agree it could be made better), how about spelling out what it is that you think would make it better? I wouldn't be surprised if Jim and/or Craig reads this thread at some point.
kyro 17y ago
But you wouldn't say the same to defend Apple, right?
- luckydude 17y ago
  Probably not. Apple is a corporation that acts like one. They are in it to make money. They are better than average in that they try and make quality products (unlike cough Microsoft), but they are still very much in it to extract as much money as possible. And Apple has Jobs, the day that they derive any useful help out of the likes of me is the day I retire a wealthy man. Craiglist is different, much less corporate in the traditional sense. From the very beginning they were trying to provide a service that is largely free (and hugely useful, I've bought and sold stuff there and never paid a tax like Ebay extracts). It's a pretty sweet setup, end users get a valuable service for free, craigslist gets money from entities that can afford to pay, why screw it up? I tend to agree with some of the people here who want to make it better but if you really want to do that then go talk to them about a joint project or go work there. Personally, I'd love a way to search all of the craigslist sites at once (I shopped for months to get a 2006 Sprinter, wanted the smaller motor that gets better mpg, finally found one in portland. It was painful doing all those searches). So I agree that there are things that could be made better for the users of the site. I think the way you get those things done is to work with them from the beginning.

skolor 17y ago

If someone is complaining about your service, it may be a good idea to listen to them. All of the "Blah, blah, if you want it you should be able to create your own super successful site" posts are really rather pointless. Yes, site/company owners have to make some tough decisions about their product, and how users can access/use it. There are going to be complaints, and there are going to be users who disagree. Telling your users to "shut the fuck up" when they're saying they disagree when you've gone from supporting them to destroying what they've built without telling them anything about it seems to be rather harsh. Its easy to come out and say "Oh, he can do anything he wants because its his company, and if you don't like it just leave". It takes a hell of a lot more effort to actually put the finger on why a move like this (blocking an entire site which hosts various mashups, over 2000 targeting just Craigslist, without notifying the users or having any real method of notifying the "developers" why it was done, or what they can do about it) and trying to point out to the people who actually could do something about it. As a tip, if you're getting that much flak from your users that you have to start flaming users on the internet about it, you're probably doing something wrong.

luckydude 17y ago
Thanks for the tip. The pointer to your successful site is? Sorry, cheap shot but... And your claim that you or the other folks are a user is based on what? Craig takes care of the _actual_ users, the people who buy/sell stuff there, use it for job listings/postings, etc. Your point about listening to your users would be valid if you actually were one. Or better yet represented a whole class of users. The whining here comes from a set of people who are leaches. They are people who want to leverage craigslist.org. Whether it is for profit or for fun or for fame, it's leveraging the work of someone else. In no way are those people "users" of craigslist.
- JMiao 17y ago
  i've been thinking about this topic (users, not craigslist) a lot over the past few weeks. thanks.

jacoblyles 17y ago

They're a monopolist with a bad product, like Microsoft, but they have a crunchy image so bay area hackers love them, despite the fact that they are freezing a whole sector of business in the dark ages (again, like Microsoft). Everything you wrote could have been used as a defense of Windows 98, or IE 6. You may be defending a shitty user experience with a monopolist position, but we love you Craig because at least you hate capitalism.

sirrocco 17y ago
"Everything you wrote could have been used as a defense of IE6." Well ... that's how we have Firefox now isn't it ? I mean people went ahead and built something better.
- mnemonicsloth 17y ago
  Hence the first sentence of his post about Craigslist's crunchy image. "Let's get rid of IE6" is a great way to rally people. "Let's get rid of that bastard Craig Newmark," not so much.
  - scelerat 17y ago
    People like Craigslist. People like Craig. Hard to hate on something useful, free, and fronted by likable people.
    - jacoblyles 17y ago
      Something that wastes millions of hours per day and prevents anyone from replacing it with something better by virtue of its monopoly position and hostility to mash-ups? Yes, I can find the time to hate on it.
luckydude 17y ago
As a long time user of craigslist I disagree with the "bad product" characterization. I find their website extremely pleasant to use, much like google. When will people learn that content is king and all that flash/image/whatever crud may look great but rarely does anything but distract from the actual content. But rather than asserting that it is a fine product (which it is, though I agree it could be made better), how about spelling out what it is that you think would make it better? I wouldn't be surprised if Jim and/or Craig reads this thread at some point.

kyro 17y ago

But you wouldn't say the same to defend Apple, right?

luckydude 17y ago
Probably not. Apple is a corporation that acts like one. They are in it to make money. They are better than average in that they try and make quality products (unlike cough Microsoft), but they are still very much in it to extract as much money as possible. And Apple has Jobs, the day that they derive any useful help out of the likes of me is the day I retire a wealthy man. Craiglist is different, much less corporate in the traditional sense. From the very beginning they were trying to provide a service that is largely free (and hugely useful, I've bought and sold stuff there and never paid a tax like Ebay extracts). It's a pretty sweet setup, end users get a valuable service for free, craigslist gets money from entities that can afford to pay, why screw it up? I tend to agree with some of the people here who want to make it better but if you really want to do that then go talk to them about a joint project or go work there. Personally, I'd love a way to search all of the craigslist sites at once (I shopped for months to get a 2006 Sprinter, wanted the smaller motor that gets better mpg, finally found one in portland. It was painful doing all those searches). So I agree that there are things that could be made better for the users of the site. I think the way you get those things done is to work with them from the beginning.