4 ms·

Show HN: Tota11y – visualize and diagnose the accessibility issues on the web

72 points by prezjordan 11y ago

mkagenius 11y ago
I haven't tried it yet. But judging the contrast ratio is pretty subjective; someone might be purposefully having a different contrast - like making something less noticeable than other more important element.
- hlieberman 11y ago
  True - but the numbers used are part of the WCAG standards (WCAG 2.0 1.4.3), which provide a "good estimate" for the average-case minimums of what is acceptable. 3:1 - minimum contrast for "large scale" text (18 pt or 14 pt bold, or larger) 4.5:1 - minimum contrast for regular sized text
- prezjordan 11y ago
  As hlieberman points out, we're following the very much objective WCAG standards. Roots of those cut-offs are somewhat subjective I suppose. I agree with you that one may want to use contrast to convey importance, but we can do this while avoiding the contrast ratio being too low. Good news is that those most affected by contrast violations are likely to use a high-contrast mode for their browser. It's just unfortunate that they won't see the same designs as everyone else. Using good contrast ensures a consistent design for all.
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  Which is to say the designer is purposefully making the site less accessible for users that need a certain level of contrast in order to use the site. If you don't care to make your site usable by people with limited vision, why use this tool at all?
metaobject 11y ago
I have terrible vision. One of the things that bothers me (and will cause me to sometimes hit the back button) is when websites somehow disable pinch-to-zoom on my iPhone or iPad. I found a hack (sort of) where I create a bookmark that I call "ZOOM" that runs some JavaScript that allows me to zoom most of these pages. Sometimes, though, the layout is such that menus or other items on the page seem to get in the way when I use my ZOOM bookmark. It's for this reason that I don't use apps created by web pages that host the web page's content (e.g., the many reddit apps). I have to use a browser so I can zoom in by a variable amount (depending on the font size, etc). Anyway, just an opinion regarding web site layout/design from someone who can't see for shit.
- prezjordan 11y ago
  It is terribly unfortunate (we're not in violation of this, right? Seems like I can zoom on my phone). But yeah, not sure why folks intentionally disable zooming. Maybe because there are situation where one may accidentally zoom in on a sentence and the page author wants to prevent that? Not sure.
  - metaobject 11y ago
    No, sorry. I didn't mean to imply your site did this. I was just talking about a usability/accessibility issue that I frequently encounter.
    - prezjordan 11y ago
      Oh no need to apologize - just being extra cautious. Glad you're bringing this up, hope more front-end folks realize how a seemingly simple change can make for such a bad experience.
- alangpierce 11y ago
  Yeah, websites that disable zoom are annoying. Google's documentation specifically calls it out as something you shouldn't do (for the accessibility reasons you mentioned): https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/ConfigureViewport#other-considerations https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/ConfigureV... Apple's docs don't seem to discourage it, though: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/UsingtheViewport/UsingtheViewport.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40006509-SW26 https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/AppleA... Chrome on Android has a specific "Force enable zoom" setting in the accessibility options that overrides requests to prevent zooming in. It looks like there isn't anything like that on iOS, but iOS has a system-wide accessibility settings let you zoom the whole screen using three-finger gestures, so you may find that useful.
- beagle3 11y ago
  Check the iPhone's accessibility settings. There's a zoom you can turn on by triple-clicking the home button (with the right setting) that goes farther than usual and cannot be disabled by the page.

72 points by prezjordan 11y ago

I haven't tried it yet. But judging the contrast ratio is pretty subjective; someone might be purposefully having a different contrast - like making something less noticeable than other more important element.

hlieberman 11y ago
True - but the numbers used are part of the WCAG standards (WCAG 2.0 1.4.3), which provide a "good estimate" for the average-case minimums of what is acceptable. 3:1 - minimum contrast for "large scale" text (18 pt or 14 pt bold, or larger) 4.5:1 - minimum contrast for regular sized text
prezjordan 11y ago
As hlieberman points out, we're following the very much objective WCAG standards. Roots of those cut-offs are somewhat subjective I suppose. I agree with you that one may want to use contrast to convey importance, but we can do this while avoiding the contrast ratio being too low. Good news is that those most affected by contrast violations are likely to use a high-contrast mode for their browser. It's just unfortunate that they won't see the same designs as everyone else. Using good contrast ensures a consistent design for all.
SwellJoe 11y ago
Which is to say the designer is purposefully making the site less accessible for users that need a certain level of contrast in order to use the site. If you don't care to make your site usable by people with limited vision, why use this tool at all?

metaobject 11y ago

I have terrible vision. One of the things that bothers me (and will cause me to sometimes hit the back button) is when websites somehow disable pinch-to-zoom on my iPhone or iPad. I found a hack (sort of) where I create a bookmark that I call "ZOOM" that runs some JavaScript that allows me to zoom most of these pages. Sometimes, though, the layout is such that menus or other items on the page seem to get in the way when I use my ZOOM bookmark. It's for this reason that I don't use apps created by web pages that host the web page's content (e.g., the many reddit apps). I have to use a browser so I can zoom in by a variable amount (depending on the font size, etc). Anyway, just an opinion regarding web site layout/design from someone who can't see for shit.

prezjordan 11y ago
It is terribly unfortunate (we're not in violation of this, right? Seems like I can zoom on my phone). But yeah, not sure why folks intentionally disable zooming. Maybe because there are situation where one may accidentally zoom in on a sentence and the page author wants to prevent that? Not sure.
- metaobject 11y ago
  No, sorry. I didn't mean to imply your site did this. I was just talking about a usability/accessibility issue that I frequently encounter.
  - prezjordan 11y ago
    Oh no need to apologize - just being extra cautious. Glad you're bringing this up, hope more front-end folks realize how a seemingly simple change can make for such a bad experience.
alangpierce 11y ago
Yeah, websites that disable zoom are annoying. Google's documentation specifically calls it out as something you shouldn't do (for the accessibility reasons you mentioned): https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/ConfigureViewport#other-considerations https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/ConfigureV... Apple's docs don't seem to discourage it, though: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/UsingtheViewport/UsingtheViewport.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40006509-SW26 https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/AppleA... Chrome on Android has a specific "Force enable zoom" setting in the accessibility options that overrides requests to prevent zooming in. It looks like there isn't anything like that on iOS, but iOS has a system-wide accessibility settings let you zoom the whole screen using three-finger gestures, so you may find that useful.
beagle3 11y ago
Check the iPhone's accessibility settings. There's a zoom you can turn on by triple-clicking the home button (with the right setting) that goes farther than usual and cannot be disabled by the page.