5 ms·

Is Lisa Simpson lonely? I mean, If you go to play with the other kids, and they want to do something you don't enjoy, and what you find fun to do no kid does..

Is Lisa Simpson lonely? I mean, If you go to play with the other kids, and they want to do something you don't enjoy, and what you find fun to do no kid does... Does it mean you are lonely? When I was a kid I loved to play sports like the other kids, and was very good at it, so I was very social,but I also loved reading tons of books and mathematics. Most of the other kids did not. When you read Kant, Descartes, Stefan Zweig(in german) books that tell you how to raise a kid while you are the kid!, Asimov (in english), Feynman ... all the other kids behavior becomes so childish and stupid. You could be alone while standing with other people. For me the fact that Lisa Simpson is alone is not that she is lonely, but the consequence of being unique while other unique people live far away. I got to find and regularly meet other people like me only as an adult. Most of them are really successful now, but most of them also lived Hell in the school days. They were alone, but they are not lonely.

jkestner 11y ago
Word. When I got to MIT, I found my community. I didn't realize up to then that I had been restraining some of my nerdiness. Same thing with my wife. When we met, I discovered that I didn't have to censor the literary references... she read way more than I. I love being around people I can be myself with.
- Dewie3 11y ago
  Ah yes, embracing your inner elitist.
  - xvedejas 11y ago
    The desire to have a community and shared culture doesn't make one elitist. The GP could have as easily said they found bookish people they could relate to by becoming a librarian. Would that have sounded elitist or was the MIT name-dropping what upsets you?
  - jkestner 11y ago
    That response is why I usually censor myself.
    - Dewie3 11y ago
      Avoiding name-dropping things in largely irrelevant contexts must be very hard. How do you even manage to be yourself?
      - javajosh 11y ago
        If you two were friends, this might come across as playful ribbing ('taking the piss' as they say in the UK). But since I don't think you are friends, it comes across as mean, on your part. And you demonstrate (usefully, I think) the mistake of confusing complex and/or erudite speech/vocab with arrogance. But actually, I think the "attribution of arrogance" is a post hoc rationalization. In truth, some people feel utterly threatened by complex, erudite speech. It is hard to be confronted with a person who is having a thought that, without a lifetime of reading with intellectual curiosity (and a good memory), cannot be fully appreciated. Speaking intelligently can be (often is) like serving a plate of delicate, complex food in front of someone who isn't interested in this "pansy bullshit" and just wants a hot dog. And it hurts the same way, because what you prepared for them really is amazing, and not only is the effort not appreciated, but the recipient interprets the offer as an insult. This is a very painful experience, and you learn to take great care to learn who is expecting a gourmet conversation and who is not.
        Dewie3 11y ago
        > And you demonstrate (usefully, I think) the mistake of confusing complex and/or erudite speech/vocab with arrogance. There is nothing complex, hard to understand or erudite about "I went to MIT", "my wife is well-read" or "as a nerd being among other nerds is nice". Though I guess having studied at MIT implies that you have great knowledge, so is erudite in that kind of indirect way. As to the rest of your post, I do not (mis)attribute speech which shows that the person is intelligent or knows things that I don't understand at all. I am comfortable with that. The person has to also come off as trying to show off, as opposed to just talking about what they're interested in. But I appreciate your stab at an analysis of my insecurities. And yes I had to look up what erudite means. > Speaking intelligently can be (often is) like serving a plate of delicate, complex food in front of someone who isn't interested in this "pansy bullshit" and just wants a hot dog. And it hurts the same way, because what you prepared for them really is amazing, and not only is the effort not appreciated, but the recipient interprets the offer as an insult. This is a very painful experience, and you learn to take great care to learn who is expecting a gourmet conversation and who is not. This thinking often leads to elitist attitudes. Some things are more complex or harder to get into than other things. That doesn't mean that they are superior to entertain. It might show that the person who appreciates them has a certain intellect, or whatever, but not ttat the thing itself is inherently good. I used to think this way about a certain medium - why can't people appreciate this thing that I showed them? Can't they see that it is better crafted, more thought out, more beautiful than that other thing that they are currently interested in? Then I stopped looking at it as a matter of appreciating ever-more complex, hard and well-crafted things and just as appreciating the thing for itself. If two people enjoy two different things equally, does it matter which one is superior by some objective standard? No. It's just a bullshit distraction.
  - nugget 11y ago
    Is it elitist to want to be around other kids you can mentally relate to? I suffered in school until I transferred to a 7th grade public magnet school. For the first time in my life I felt like I belonged because I could be myself with the other kids, most of whom happened to be from poor immigrant families (it is not a class or culture issue).
  - onion2k 11y ago
    It's not elitist to like something that makes you happy, even if that thing is being around a group of wealthy, intelligent people. Elitism is about how you treat the other people. Being elitist would mean refusing to socialise with any group other than the one MIT crowd because they're too 'dumb' to be fun around. I don't think that's what jkestner is suggesting; that he found a group he's happy with doesn't mean he refuses contact with the other groups.
  - gumby 11y ago
    "Elite" simply means "drawn out of the larger pool". Sure, there is a lot of social baggage around that word, as in a sense of superiority, but the in the general case there is no such implication. What's wrong with hanging around with folks who get your jokes (and vice versa)? They don't have to form the totality of your identity. Somehow it seems uncontroversial when someone finds a group of, say, fans of their favorite team (or rock band) and says, "now I am with my people!" Is there some peculiar difference in regards to books or maths jokes?
- austinjp 11y ago
  Nobody likes to feel lonely in a crowd. Everybody prefers the company of their herd. However there is plenty to learn from those who are not like you, even if you struggle to understand them, or they you. Variety is the spice of life. Avoiding the company of most others -- or the correlate of exclusively preferring the company of one group -- risks stagnation.
allendoerfer 11y ago
Humans are social beings and need to feel the closeness to other human beings. This does not mean, that Lisa Simpson is lonely - of course the exact level of closeness you need differs from human being to human being and she has parents after all. But more statistically speaking I would say that being alone does make you lonely, even though the reading German philosophers as a child part appeals to the exceptionalism of the other commenters.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  But physical proximity is not emotional closeness. Being surrounded by people having negative effects (disrespect, incompatible value system,...) on you is far worth than bubbling alone walking in a forest.
  - allendoerfer 11y ago
    Physical proximity certainly does help, that is why lovers cuddle and parents hug their children. They need this physical proximity to gain the ability to trust and build more complex relationships on more abstract forms of closeness. I do not think that high intelligence removes this need and magically gives you the ability to create relationships or fight loneliness by brain power.
    - agumonkey 11y ago
      These are affectionate relationships and an exception rather than the norm. It's a massively important need, but you only have a handful of people you cuddle with. The vast majority of your relationship are social, smalltalkish, gossipish, etc.

jkestner 11y ago

Word. When I got to MIT, I found my community. I didn't realize up to then that I had been restraining some of my nerdiness. Same thing with my wife. When we met, I discovered that I didn't have to censor the literary references... she read way more than I. I love being around people I can be myself with.

Dewie3 11y ago
Ah yes, embracing your inner elitist.
- xvedejas 11y ago
  The desire to have a community and shared culture doesn't make one elitist. The GP could have as easily said they found bookish people they could relate to by becoming a librarian. Would that have sounded elitist or was the MIT name-dropping what upsets you?
- jkestner 11y ago
  That response is why I usually censor myself.
  - Dewie3 11y ago
    Avoiding name-dropping things in largely irrelevant contexts must be very hard. How do you even manage to be yourself?
    - javajosh 11y ago
      If you two were friends, this might come across as playful ribbing ('taking the piss' as they say in the UK). But since I don't think you are friends, it comes across as mean, on your part. And you demonstrate (usefully, I think) the mistake of confusing complex and/or erudite speech/vocab with arrogance. But actually, I think the "attribution of arrogance" is a post hoc rationalization. In truth, some people feel utterly threatened by complex, erudite speech. It is hard to be confronted with a person who is having a thought that, without a lifetime of reading with intellectual curiosity (and a good memory), cannot be fully appreciated. Speaking intelligently can be (often is) like serving a plate of delicate, complex food in front of someone who isn't interested in this "pansy bullshit" and just wants a hot dog. And it hurts the same way, because what you prepared for them really is amazing, and not only is the effort not appreciated, but the recipient interprets the offer as an insult. This is a very painful experience, and you learn to take great care to learn who is expecting a gourmet conversation and who is not.
      - Dewie3 11y ago
        > And you demonstrate (usefully, I think) the mistake of confusing complex and/or erudite speech/vocab with arrogance. There is nothing complex, hard to understand or erudite about "I went to MIT", "my wife is well-read" or "as a nerd being among other nerds is nice". Though I guess having studied at MIT implies that you have great knowledge, so is erudite in that kind of indirect way. As to the rest of your post, I do not (mis)attribute speech which shows that the person is intelligent or knows things that I don't understand at all. I am comfortable with that. The person has to also come off as trying to show off, as opposed to just talking about what they're interested in. But I appreciate your stab at an analysis of my insecurities. And yes I had to look up what erudite means. > Speaking intelligently can be (often is) like serving a plate of delicate, complex food in front of someone who isn't interested in this "pansy bullshit" and just wants a hot dog. And it hurts the same way, because what you prepared for them really is amazing, and not only is the effort not appreciated, but the recipient interprets the offer as an insult. This is a very painful experience, and you learn to take great care to learn who is expecting a gourmet conversation and who is not. This thinking often leads to elitist attitudes. Some things are more complex or harder to get into than other things. That doesn't mean that they are superior to entertain. It might show that the person who appreciates them has a certain intellect, or whatever, but not ttat the thing itself is inherently good. I used to think this way about a certain medium - why can't people appreciate this thing that I showed them? Can't they see that it is better crafted, more thought out, more beautiful than that other thing that they are currently interested in? Then I stopped looking at it as a matter of appreciating ever-more complex, hard and well-crafted things and just as appreciating the thing for itself. If two people enjoy two different things equally, does it matter which one is superior by some objective standard? No. It's just a bullshit distraction.
- nugget 11y ago
  Is it elitist to want to be around other kids you can mentally relate to? I suffered in school until I transferred to a 7th grade public magnet school. For the first time in my life I felt like I belonged because I could be myself with the other kids, most of whom happened to be from poor immigrant families (it is not a class or culture issue).
- onion2k 11y ago
  It's not elitist to like something that makes you happy, even if that thing is being around a group of wealthy, intelligent people. Elitism is about how you treat the other people. Being elitist would mean refusing to socialise with any group other than the one MIT crowd because they're too 'dumb' to be fun around. I don't think that's what jkestner is suggesting; that he found a group he's happy with doesn't mean he refuses contact with the other groups.
- gumby 11y ago
  "Elite" simply means "drawn out of the larger pool". Sure, there is a lot of social baggage around that word, as in a sense of superiority, but the in the general case there is no such implication. What's wrong with hanging around with folks who get your jokes (and vice versa)? They don't have to form the totality of your identity. Somehow it seems uncontroversial when someone finds a group of, say, fans of their favorite team (or rock band) and says, "now I am with my people!" Is there some peculiar difference in regards to books or maths jokes?
austinjp 11y ago
Nobody likes to feel lonely in a crowd. Everybody prefers the company of their herd. However there is plenty to learn from those who are not like you, even if you struggle to understand them, or they you. Variety is the spice of life. Avoiding the company of most others -- or the correlate of exclusively preferring the company of one group -- risks stagnation.

allendoerfer 11y ago

Humans are social beings and need to feel the closeness to other human beings. This does not mean, that Lisa Simpson is lonely - of course the exact level of closeness you need differs from human being to human being and she has parents after all. But more statistically speaking I would say that being alone does make you lonely, even though the reading German philosophers as a child part appeals to the exceptionalism of the other commenters.

agumonkey 11y ago
But physical proximity is not emotional closeness. Being surrounded by people having negative effects (disrespect, incompatible value system,...) on you is far worth than bubbling alone walking in a forest.
- allendoerfer 11y ago
  Physical proximity certainly does help, that is why lovers cuddle and parents hug their children. They need this physical proximity to gain the ability to trust and build more complex relationships on more abstract forms of closeness. I do not think that high intelligence removes this need and magically gives you the ability to create relationships or fight loneliness by brain power.
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    These are affectionate relationships and an exception rather than the norm. It's a massively important need, but you only have a handful of people you cuddle with. The vast majority of your relationship are social, smalltalkish, gossipish, etc.