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Didn't realise the Dalai Lama was a controversial figure just judging from some of the early comments here he is. Why? Is this a silly 'religion/mysticism vs. s

Didn't realise the Dalai Lama was a controversial figure just judging from some of the early comments here he is. Why? Is this a silly 'religion/mysticism vs. science' thing or is there more to it?

notNow 11y ago
Have you heard of the "Burmese Bin Laden"? It turned out that Buddhist clergymen were not "lovely pets" like we're told before.
- kamac 11y ago
  One bad Buddhist clergyman doesn't mean they are all like that. Analogically, there are both "good" and "bad" clergymen in catholism, protestantism, [insert your religion/beliefs here], but that doesn't mean they are all like that.
  - notNow 11y ago
    Not one bad apple here. We're talking about a good deal of rotten apples. Check out the BBS movement in Sri Lanka and its incendiary politics under the leadership of monk Gnanasara Thero. The marketing hype and propaganda surrounding everything in Buddhism like it's the most peaceful religion out there and their clergymen are the pinnacle of tolerance, inclusion and forgiveness is the reason behind my reaction and unfavorable views. I used to think that Buddhism is a peaceful religion but after I learned of all these nutjob monks, I changed my mind and accepted the fact that all religions are at best ridiculous or at worst repulsive.
    - wordbank 11y ago
      > I changed my mind and accepted the fact that all religions are at best ridiculous or at worst repulsive. You are confusing the ideas with their interpretations by human minds.
rocky1138 11y ago
There is a rumour that he used to own slaves. I've never been able to find any good research on it, though. If anyone has any, I'd love to read it. Edit: I'm not too sure why I'm being downvoted, since I'm essentially asking for clarification on something. Should questions be looked down upon? Here's a Wikipedia article dealing with what I'm curious about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy
- nothrabannosir 11y ago
  This comment reminds me of South Park's "Dances With Smurfs" episode.
- vijayr 11y ago
  Not sure how much of it is true, you might find this interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs&t=70s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs&t=70s
analyst74 11y ago
He is primarily a political leader, in exile from China. People like him because: - they care about religious/political freedom - he's an underdog, and his enemy is a notoriously authoritarian government I don't think he is a controversial figure in the US. But his political advocacy is not supported by everyone in rest of the world, and his reputation is probably more notorious if you talk to people on China's side.
tdaltonc 11y ago
There are two things that you might be seeing. One is the 'religion/mysticism vs. science/engineering' argument. The other is that many Chinese nationalists see positive comments about the Dalai Lama as a cover for anit-China sentiment. In their minds, anything pro-Dalai Lama is proof that Chinas enemies are conducting a smear campaign agains China.
- cb18 11y ago
  How is this a smear campaign? -- Hey China, you know that nation you invaded and subjugated? Well, they didn't like that. If you would do something to reverse those actions, they would appreciate it.
jessedhillon 11y ago
Well, imagine that Utah wanted to secede and form an independent Mormon theocracy in the middle of the USA. How do you think the US would respond if the Mormon government ignored any law or court ruling against them, and went ahead with establishing their state? The condition of the Dalai Lama and Buddhist Tibet is analogous to this hypothetical situation in many ways, yet I find it hard to imagine that the world would rally around the exiled Mormon leaders and hail them as heroes. The biggest difference here is that the government of China is an authoritarian regime, but that fact notwithstanding, it still has autonomy within its own borders.
- tdaltonc 11y ago
  Other big difference: * The Dalai Lama doesn't want to form a theocracy. * The popularly endorsed government of Utah was not violently overthrown by the US. * The Dalai Lama doesn't want Tibet to secede from China, he just wants it to have more regional autonomy.
  - joshuapants 11y ago
    > The popularly endorsed government of Utah was not violently overthrown by the US. ...but if you're interested in seeing how something like that might play out, you can take a look at the Southern Victory series by Harry Turtledove :D
  - jessedhillon 11y ago
    > * The Dalai Lama doesn't want to form a theocracy. He claims to be the leader of the legitimate government of Tibet, whose return to power he has made his goal. He is a monarch, appointed by religious rituals. He holds simultaneously the highest religious and political offices of his people. In what way is he not a theocratic leader? > * The popularly endorsed government of Utah was not violently overthrown by the US. Were it to make serious motions towards secession, that would undoubtedly be the result. > * The Dalai Lama doesn't want Tibet to secede from China, he just wants it to have more regional autonomy. Yes, today this is true. He now advocates for a "Third Way" which allows for cultural preservation of the Tibetan people while recognizing Chinese sovereignty. This has not always been his position, and it was not for most of his exile.
tomjen3 11y ago
What relevance does a 70ish mystic leader from China have for how a programmer should live in the west? Why is what he does always in the news?

Didn't realise the Dalai Lama was a controversial figure just judging from some of the early comments here he is. Why? Is this a silly 'religion/mysticism vs. science' thing or is there more to it?

notNow 11y ago

Have you heard of the "Burmese Bin Laden"? It turned out that Buddhist clergymen were not "lovely pets" like we're told before.

kamac 11y ago
One bad Buddhist clergyman doesn't mean they are all like that. Analogically, there are both "good" and "bad" clergymen in catholism, protestantism, [insert your religion/beliefs here], but that doesn't mean they are all like that.
- notNow 11y ago
  Not one bad apple here. We're talking about a good deal of rotten apples. Check out the BBS movement in Sri Lanka and its incendiary politics under the leadership of monk Gnanasara Thero. The marketing hype and propaganda surrounding everything in Buddhism like it's the most peaceful religion out there and their clergymen are the pinnacle of tolerance, inclusion and forgiveness is the reason behind my reaction and unfavorable views. I used to think that Buddhism is a peaceful religion but after I learned of all these nutjob monks, I changed my mind and accepted the fact that all religions are at best ridiculous or at worst repulsive.
  - wordbank 11y ago
    > I changed my mind and accepted the fact that all religions are at best ridiculous or at worst repulsive. You are confusing the ideas with their interpretations by human minds.

rocky1138 11y ago

There is a rumour that he used to own slaves. I've never been able to find any good research on it, though. If anyone has any, I'd love to read it. Edit: I'm not too sure why I'm being downvoted, since I'm essentially asking for clarification on something. Should questions be looked down upon? Here's a Wikipedia article dealing with what I'm curious about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy

nothrabannosir 11y ago
This comment reminds me of South Park's "Dances With Smurfs" episode.
vijayr 11y ago
Not sure how much of it is true, you might find this interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs&t=70s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs&t=70s

analyst74 11y ago

He is primarily a political leader, in exile from China. People like him because: - they care about religious/political freedom - he's an underdog, and his enemy is a notoriously authoritarian government I don't think he is a controversial figure in the US. But his political advocacy is not supported by everyone in rest of the world, and his reputation is probably more notorious if you talk to people on China's side.

tdaltonc 11y ago

There are two things that you might be seeing. One is the 'religion/mysticism vs. science/engineering' argument. The other is that many Chinese nationalists see positive comments about the Dalai Lama as a cover for anit-China sentiment. In their minds, anything pro-Dalai Lama is proof that Chinas enemies are conducting a smear campaign agains China.

cb18 11y ago
How is this a smear campaign? -- Hey China, you know that nation you invaded and subjugated? Well, they didn't like that. If you would do something to reverse those actions, they would appreciate it.

jessedhillon 11y ago

Well, imagine that Utah wanted to secede and form an independent Mormon theocracy in the middle of the USA. How do you think the US would respond if the Mormon government ignored any law or court ruling against them, and went ahead with establishing their state? The condition of the Dalai Lama and Buddhist Tibet is analogous to this hypothetical situation in many ways, yet I find it hard to imagine that the world would rally around the exiled Mormon leaders and hail them as heroes. The biggest difference here is that the government of China is an authoritarian regime, but that fact notwithstanding, it still has autonomy within its own borders.

tdaltonc 11y ago
Other big difference: * The Dalai Lama doesn't want to form a theocracy. * The popularly endorsed government of Utah was not violently overthrown by the US. * The Dalai Lama doesn't want Tibet to secede from China, he just wants it to have more regional autonomy.
- joshuapants 11y ago
  > The popularly endorsed government of Utah was not violently overthrown by the US. ...but if you're interested in seeing how something like that might play out, you can take a look at the Southern Victory series by Harry Turtledove :D
- jessedhillon 11y ago
  > * The Dalai Lama doesn't want to form a theocracy. He claims to be the leader of the legitimate government of Tibet, whose return to power he has made his goal. He is a monarch, appointed by religious rituals. He holds simultaneously the highest religious and political offices of his people. In what way is he not a theocratic leader? > * The popularly endorsed government of Utah was not violently overthrown by the US. Were it to make serious motions towards secession, that would undoubtedly be the result. > * The Dalai Lama doesn't want Tibet to secede from China, he just wants it to have more regional autonomy. Yes, today this is true. He now advocates for a "Third Way" which allows for cultural preservation of the Tibetan people while recognizing Chinese sovereignty. This has not always been his position, and it was not for most of his exile.

tomjen3 11y ago

What relevance does a 70ish mystic leader from China have for how a programmer should live in the west? Why is what he does always in the news?