5 ms·

This is horrendous on the part of the managers: “I want you to work faster, because we need the material urgently,” he said. I screamed. Everyone ar

by hliyan 11y ago

This is horrendous on the part of the managers: “I want you to work faster, because we need the material urgently,” he said. I screamed. Everyone around me was crying and yelling. They stopped the assembly line on the female side of the room, but the men were told to keep working. In my first year in university, before picking my specialization (computers), we had to study the basics of all the engineering disciplines, including mechanical engineering. One day in workshop class, we were given the assignment of making a nut -- a nut, from a metal block, using a hammer and chisel. After laboring at it for hours and producing completely uneven hexagon, I asked the instructor: "Why do we have to learn this? I'm studying to be an engineer. I'll never be doing this." The instructor replied, "So you will know the difficulty the tasks you order others to do." I felt immediately humbled. Fifteen years on, I've never forgotten this. In my position, I can't avoid putting pressure on people to perform anymore. But as much as possible, I've learned to see if it's something I could do myself if I were in the same position. Pushing people to work harder is not management.

scarmig 11y ago
That's idealistic, but the logic of raw capitalism suggests otherwise. If a management philosophy increases worker stress by 500% but increases widget production by 5%, then companies that implement that philosophy will outperform, outcompete, and devour companies that don't. If one of out ten workers suffer a life debilitating injury but you can reduce the cost of that worker's injury to you to effectively zero (at least, to an amount much smaller than the additional profit you make), then you're still running a sound business. In theory public outrage might punish companies that do mistreat their workers, but, let's be real: the vast bulk of the market prefers unethically produced widgets to ethically produced ones that are 10% pricier. And even a company that sells itself on being ethical is, as likely as not, just using that as a marketing campaign to hike up profits while still treating workers terribly.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Luckily there are countries where unions still matter.
  - scarmig 11y ago
    The governments that control where workers actually manufacture things, however, either ban, co-opt, or brutalize unions. It's no coincidence that China is a manufacturing capital of the world, and all independent unions are banned. In Mexico, where this woman had her hands ripped away from her, unions are theoretically allowed to organize and participate in strike actions. In fact, though, all worker activism has to be approved by the local government, which is more often than not in a corrupt alliance with local businesses.
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      That is why we should pay with our wallets and try to buy goods (if possible) from countries where governments allow their citizens to have proper working conditions. Maybe if enough people do this, the remaining countries pay attention and try to improve the conditions. It is a kind of utopian dream, but better than pretending that the shiny TV isn't a product from slavery.
    - sogen 11y ago
      good luck finding an union in Mexico. In fact, a recent Mexican law fordibs "people grouping together". And outsourcing is now legal btw, thanks to another new law. So, any benefits mexicans had they are gone too. And good luck living with a settlement of USD 1,200 (unique payment)
- EliRivers 11y ago
  the logic of raw capitalism suggests otherwise The logic of raw capitalism concerns private ownership of the means of production. That's all. I can give many examples of state-owned enterprises over the years treating their employees in just such an abominable way.
- ci5er 11y ago
  Apparently, it is now illegal in the US to account for a worker as a low fixed cost capital asset, and instead we must treat all workers as a higher variable cost fungible commodity input. This makes a big difference on how one treats that piece of economic production equipment. (Or "cog in the wheel", we might call it?) In any case - it's horrifying. I know that the US can't do much about mandating working conditions in factories in other countries. And we can't do much (this is in reaction to a comment ITT asserting that the shareholders shouldn't get their return until this is taken care of) about companies that are not headquartered (nor traded) in the US. (LG is, as you know, not an American company) That said - this is one of those things that the company's liability insurance should be for. I don't know the mechanics involved, but it seems as if as a condition of importing a product into the US for retails sales, then one could ask for an annual report of claims: Number of factory workers, # of injuries; # of claims; # of settlements; amounts (in number of year equivalents of their normal salary). This could probably be avoided by shell company arrangements, so it may be both bureaucratically onerous and hard to enforce fairly.
tzs 11y ago
Isn't the instructors point largely undermined by the fact that making nuts by taking hammer and chisel to a block of metal is not how nuts are generally actually made? Here's how nuts are actually made [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidWBeyOMA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidWBeyOMA0
- Gigablah 11y ago
  No need for the "well-actually", that's not the point. You might as well question whether engineers will be ordering other people to make nuts in the first place.
- DanBC 11y ago
  The point is that there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way to do things, and engineers give instructions so they better be careful about what they're asking people to do. I've had to metaphorically chisel plenty of nuts from a solid block of metal because of some instruction from an engineer somewhere.
- hliyan 11y ago
  Think of the nut as a metaphor that can apply to any engineering job that the manager doesn't have to get his hands dirty with. I think that was the point.

by hliyan 11y ago

scarmig 11y ago

That's idealistic, but the logic of raw capitalism suggests otherwise. If a management philosophy increases worker stress by 500% but increases widget production by 5%, then companies that implement that philosophy will outperform, outcompete, and devour companies that don't. If one of out ten workers suffer a life debilitating injury but you can reduce the cost of that worker's injury to you to effectively zero (at least, to an amount much smaller than the additional profit you make), then you're still running a sound business. In theory public outrage might punish companies that do mistreat their workers, but, let's be real: the vast bulk of the market prefers unethically produced widgets to ethically produced ones that are 10% pricier. And even a company that sells itself on being ethical is, as likely as not, just using that as a marketing campaign to hike up profits while still treating workers terribly.

pjmlp 11y ago
Luckily there are countries where unions still matter.
- scarmig 11y ago
  The governments that control where workers actually manufacture things, however, either ban, co-opt, or brutalize unions. It's no coincidence that China is a manufacturing capital of the world, and all independent unions are banned. In Mexico, where this woman had her hands ripped away from her, unions are theoretically allowed to organize and participate in strike actions. In fact, though, all worker activism has to be approved by the local government, which is more often than not in a corrupt alliance with local businesses.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    That is why we should pay with our wallets and try to buy goods (if possible) from countries where governments allow their citizens to have proper working conditions. Maybe if enough people do this, the remaining countries pay attention and try to improve the conditions. It is a kind of utopian dream, but better than pretending that the shiny TV isn't a product from slavery.
  - sogen 11y ago
    good luck finding an union in Mexico. In fact, a recent Mexican law fordibs "people grouping together". And outsourcing is now legal btw, thanks to another new law. So, any benefits mexicans had they are gone too. And good luck living with a settlement of USD 1,200 (unique payment)
EliRivers 11y ago
the logic of raw capitalism suggests otherwise The logic of raw capitalism concerns private ownership of the means of production. That's all. I can give many examples of state-owned enterprises over the years treating their employees in just such an abominable way.
ci5er 11y ago
Apparently, it is now illegal in the US to account for a worker as a low fixed cost capital asset, and instead we must treat all workers as a higher variable cost fungible commodity input. This makes a big difference on how one treats that piece of economic production equipment. (Or "cog in the wheel", we might call it?) In any case - it's horrifying. I know that the US can't do much about mandating working conditions in factories in other countries. And we can't do much (this is in reaction to a comment ITT asserting that the shareholders shouldn't get their return until this is taken care of) about companies that are not headquartered (nor traded) in the US. (LG is, as you know, not an American company) That said - this is one of those things that the company's liability insurance should be for. I don't know the mechanics involved, but it seems as if as a condition of importing a product into the US for retails sales, then one could ask for an annual report of claims: Number of factory workers, # of injuries; # of claims; # of settlements; amounts (in number of year equivalents of their normal salary). This could probably be avoided by shell company arrangements, so it may be both bureaucratically onerous and hard to enforce fairly.

tzs 11y ago

Isn't the instructors point largely undermined by the fact that making nuts by taking hammer and chisel to a block of metal is not how nuts are generally actually made? Here's how nuts are actually made [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidWBeyOMA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidWBeyOMA0

Gigablah 11y ago
No need for the "well-actually", that's not the point. You might as well question whether engineers will be ordering other people to make nuts in the first place.
DanBC 11y ago
The point is that there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way to do things, and engineers give instructions so they better be careful about what they're asking people to do. I've had to metaphorically chisel plenty of nuts from a solid block of metal because of some instruction from an engineer somewhere.
hliyan 11y ago
Think of the nut as a metaphor that can apply to any engineering job that the manager doesn't have to get his hands dirty with. I think that was the point.