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Excuse me Mr Lol, but since it happened, it would appear that it in fact is how the internet works. If the postal service misdelivers some mail are there crimi

Excuse me Mr Lol, but since it happened, it would appear that it in fact is how the internet works. If the postal service misdelivers some mail are there criminal charges? I would suggest resisting the urge to hit every problem and mistake in the world with the law hammer; it is rarely productive, and generally isn't how the world works.

ryanlol 11y ago
I never said that it isn't how the internet works? Your comparison to postal service misdelivering some mail is both irrelevant and utterly ridiculous. A relevant comparison would be someone disrupting mail delivery on a global scale. Which would in fact be a crime in quite a few countries. For example in the US: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1701 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1701 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1706 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1706 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1700 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1700 E: (Yeah, downvote me because you disagree. Instead of explaining why I'm wrong)
- mfoy_ 11y ago
  You are wrong because this IS about how the Internet works and less about how one person/company screwed up. Apparently all it takes is one ISP misconfiguring something to break large swathes of the Internet. I believe the consensus on HN is that no one entity should have an Internet kill switch. If someone managed to disrupt mail delivery on a global scale, people would be less concerned with THAT it happened than that it COULD HAVE happened in the first place. Why would global mail delivery be so not-fault-tolerant that one mistake brought it to a grinding halt for hours? Same deal here.
  - ryanlol 11y ago
    I don't think anyone is saying that the fact that this CAN happen isn't a huge problem, it most definitely is. Thing is, everybody knows (and has always known) this can happen. Everybody also knows how to avoid it. Well-intentioned people tend to try to avoid breaking the internet. That really doesn't make the negligence of Telecom Malaysia any more defensible. I really don't see what's the point of defending Telecom Malaysia, a plenty of people manage to operate their equipment in a manner that doesn't break the internet. Just because this was a mistake doesn't mean they should not be held responsible (and no, I'm not saying someone should go to prison.)
    - jessaustin 11y ago
      I really don't see what's the point of defending Telecom Malaysia, a plenty of people manage to operate their equipment in a manner that doesn't break the internet. Perhaps the point is that Malaysia is part of the world, and we can't realistically expect to exclude them from the internet, any more than we could expect to exclude them from the commercial airline system. Their network people answer to their customers in Malaysia, not to us nerds on HN. (Also ISTM many Malaysians are more concerned about earthquakes caused by exhibitionist tourists [0] than about internet stability.) I guess in some way TM answer to their upstream in GLBX, and they could get "demoted" in some way, but GLBX isn't going to just walk away from an income stream. Many times when one node is blamed for network-wide bad results, the nodes that connect it to the network might be blamed fairly, as well. [0] http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/newsindex.php?id=1142543 http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/newsindex.php?id=1142543
      - ryanlol 11y ago
        I'm definitely not saying we should disconnect Malaysia from the internet, that'd be terrible. Despite the name, TM is a private company. I really wouldn't have any issues with (temporarily) disconnecting them, or alternatively fining them. GLBX should definitely be able to do both of those. Of course best case scenario would involve Malaysian government intervention. (As unlikely as that sounds in a country that seems to be ran by people that believe in magic)
        jessaustin 11y ago
        I really wouldn't have any issues with (temporarily) disconnecting them, or alternatively fining them. GLBX should definitely be able to do both of those. If that language is in their contracts, then sure. Such penalties might not be made public, however, or there may be different enforcement mechanisms in place. The internet (and all global commerce, really) functions anyway. Of course best case scenario would involve Malaysian government intervention. Given how often "Malaysian government intervention" entails unconscionable violence, I cannot agree.
- strathmeyer 11y ago
  "Whoever knowingly and willfully" nope "mailbags" nope "with design to obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another, or opens, secretes, embezzles, or destroys the same" nope "voluntarily quits or deserts" nope

ryanlol 11y ago

I never said that it isn't how the internet works? Your comparison to postal service misdelivering some mail is both irrelevant and utterly ridiculous. A relevant comparison would be someone disrupting mail delivery on a global scale. Which would in fact be a crime in quite a few countries. For example in the US: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1701 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1701 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1706 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1706 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1700 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1700 E: (Yeah, downvote me because you disagree. Instead of explaining why I'm wrong)

mfoy_ 11y ago
You are wrong because this IS about how the Internet works and less about how one person/company screwed up. Apparently all it takes is one ISP misconfiguring something to break large swathes of the Internet. I believe the consensus on HN is that no one entity should have an Internet kill switch. If someone managed to disrupt mail delivery on a global scale, people would be less concerned with THAT it happened than that it COULD HAVE happened in the first place. Why would global mail delivery be so not-fault-tolerant that one mistake brought it to a grinding halt for hours? Same deal here.
- ryanlol 11y ago
  I don't think anyone is saying that the fact that this CAN happen isn't a huge problem, it most definitely is. Thing is, everybody knows (and has always known) this can happen. Everybody also knows how to avoid it. Well-intentioned people tend to try to avoid breaking the internet. That really doesn't make the negligence of Telecom Malaysia any more defensible. I really don't see what's the point of defending Telecom Malaysia, a plenty of people manage to operate their equipment in a manner that doesn't break the internet. Just because this was a mistake doesn't mean they should not be held responsible (and no, I'm not saying someone should go to prison.)
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    I really don't see what's the point of defending Telecom Malaysia, a plenty of people manage to operate their equipment in a manner that doesn't break the internet. Perhaps the point is that Malaysia is part of the world, and we can't realistically expect to exclude them from the internet, any more than we could expect to exclude them from the commercial airline system. Their network people answer to their customers in Malaysia, not to us nerds on HN. (Also ISTM many Malaysians are more concerned about earthquakes caused by exhibitionist tourists [0] than about internet stability.) I guess in some way TM answer to their upstream in GLBX, and they could get "demoted" in some way, but GLBX isn't going to just walk away from an income stream. Many times when one node is blamed for network-wide bad results, the nodes that connect it to the network might be blamed fairly, as well. [0] http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/newsindex.php?id=1142543 http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/newsindex.php?id=1142543
    - ryanlol 11y ago
      I'm definitely not saying we should disconnect Malaysia from the internet, that'd be terrible. Despite the name, TM is a private company. I really wouldn't have any issues with (temporarily) disconnecting them, or alternatively fining them. GLBX should definitely be able to do both of those. Of course best case scenario would involve Malaysian government intervention. (As unlikely as that sounds in a country that seems to be ran by people that believe in magic)
      - jessaustin 11y ago
        I really wouldn't have any issues with (temporarily) disconnecting them, or alternatively fining them. GLBX should definitely be able to do both of those. If that language is in their contracts, then sure. Such penalties might not be made public, however, or there may be different enforcement mechanisms in place. The internet (and all global commerce, really) functions anyway. Of course best case scenario would involve Malaysian government intervention. Given how often "Malaysian government intervention" entails unconscionable violence, I cannot agree.
strathmeyer 11y ago
"Whoever knowingly and willfully" nope "mailbags" nope "with design to obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another, or opens, secretes, embezzles, or destroys the same" nope "voluntarily quits or deserts" nope