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What the next generation really needs lessons in: - Humility - Empathy - Patience - Self restraint and control - Mindfulness/Awareness - Disappointment -

What the next generation really needs lessons in: - Humility - Empathy - Patience - Self restraint and control - Mindfulness/Awareness - Disappointment - Resilience - Communication - Listening - Learning - Financial independence and literacy - Critical thinking - Problem solving - Self acceptance Then we can focus on what area the person can best contribute in. Not everyone is going to suited for a job in programming or mathematics, or STEM as a whole.

meesterdude 11y ago
I'm glad to see a comment like this; I feel precisely the same way.
Retric 11y ago
I don't think you can teach useful levels of Critical Thinking without a solid understanding of Math, Science, and Human behavior. But, programming can also help people think more deeply about problems. There is this huge realization that computers and by extension reality does not care about what's in your head only what is. You can argue that Math has similar levels of precision, but once people start getting partial credit some of that harshness is lost. That said, I don't think school should overly focus on directly useful skills or even what people studied in the past. How many lifetimes of highschool sudents where wasted learning how to identify and name Regular Polyhedra?
- nmrm2 11y ago
  Partial credit on a math problem is pretty analogous to still getting paid even though your code has bugs.
  - Retric 11y ago
    ... or designing a bridge that looks nice, but falls down in the wind. Don't get me wrong I think we could just teach LOGO or other pure educational language for a few months. The goal IMO should be critical thought not jobs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)
    - nmrm2 11y ago
      Well then, it's probably good that we don't have school children design our bridges :-)
    - Delmania 11y ago
      I've reading the book, The Road to Character, and there's a chapter on Frances Perkins, the first female secretary of labor and one of the architects of the New Deal. She had a BA in Chemistry, not because she was good at it, but precisely because it wasn't a strength of hers. Her teachers had the opinion that if she "tough enough to major in her weakest subject, she'd be tough enough to weather whatever life threw at her". Considering her achievements later in life, I think there's some merit to those thoughts.
- Jacqued 11y ago
  I think you're employing an extremely narrow definition of critical thinking. The ability to question everything you read, hear and learn in search of the truth (what is), or, most likely, of more accurate or useful representations of it, is not dependent of your math or even science knowledge. At the end of the day, intellectual curiosity and a willingness to understand things are what you need to get ahead.
  - mcguire 11y ago
    I know many people who question everything. Unfortunately, since they only accept answers that they come up with themselves or that match their other opinions, they tend to wind up having odd pseudo-conspiracy theories like denying global climate change.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    I don't think that's right. I read a lot of people who can spout off lots of pretty words on a topic, yet they can't actually begin to reason about it. E.g., lots of people will wax poetic about "critical thinking", yet they can't actually describe a way to determine whether someone lacks it or not. Math and science are, like it or not, the most effective tools we've cooked up to understand the world.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - sklogic 11y ago
    Ability to reason is entirely mathematical. Only the smartest can find solutions without applying formal methods, the rest of us have to employ mathematics in order to tell truth from lies.
- McUsr 11y ago
  I don't know about critical thinking in general, or science, but you definetively need some math courses, in order to get the necessary problem solving skills to be able to come up with clever solutions. Some people are born with those skills, or think in a similiar way, so those people, doesn't need learn the ability of mathematical reasoning. Nevertheless, the mathematical reasoning is mandatory if you want to be an excellent programmer. Together with a lot of other skills. I am thinking about the skillset you get by solving excercises in Calculus. Having a solid understanding of Discrete Mathematics and Statistics doesn't hurt either, depending on your problem area.
cousin_it 11y ago
What the next generation really needs is an economy where everyone can make a decent living with a modest effort, without having to desperately "outcompete" other job seekers. The US had that kind of economy at some point. Since we haven't lost any arcane secrets since then, it must be still achievable today.
- Delmania 11y ago
  Your comment is why I mentioned financial literacy and financial independence. The economy is a huge system with many moving parts, so while I do agree with your statement, I think you'd get a better ROI by teaching people how to manage money. I'm a huge fan of "Your Money or Your Life" and by extension the Financial Integrity program, which advocates for people to rethink their relationship with money as well teaches people how to make income regardless of employment status.
  - totalrobe 11y ago
    Money management only really works when you make more than enough to afford the basics...half the population struggles just for housing, food, healthcare, and transportation.
    - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
      Many of whom are burning piles of money on $75/month smartphones and television subscriptions (with HBO so they can keep up with the Jones' who are also underwater).
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - fapjacks 11y ago
        Yes, the luxury lifestyle of the dirt poor. Good thing states like Kansas have made it illegal to use food stamps for cruises. Nip that one right in the bud.
    - 11y ago
wil421 11y ago
>Financial Independence Do other countries teach much about personal finance in High School or even College? I think this is one area that is lacking in US curriculum, at least when I graduated high school a decade ago. Sure I could budget a project but was I able to make informed and responsible financial decisions in my early/mid 20s? Students need to know the burdens that student loans are going to put on them after school ends. Parents may not know or remember what it was like to be a college kid trying to make ends meet. I saw many kids take heavy loans to live somewhat comfortably. Once they got "adult jobs" they still cant make ends meet after graduation due to loan repayments.
- XorNot 11y ago
  Except it really doesn't matter. You have a degree. Your parents probably had degrees. Your employers and co-workers have degrees. And they all expect you to have them when applying for jobs. Even the Silicon Valley startup crew tend to pivot wildly away from their "any one can make it" mentality once they start growing to "well, I want someone with a degree". Hell, my current company is hiring a nightshift person and the main requirement seems to be "Linux knowledge, has a degree". This is a job which basically burns people out after a year guaranteed.
  - Kluny 11y ago
    So what? There is still lot of variation on how much you have to spend on that degree. Consider: Student A: Spends high school getting good grades and receiving an allowance from his parents. Attends an expensive private school. Takes out hefty loans to pay for school and the same standard of living he enjoyed with his parents. Has little financial help from his parents who figure that the student loans cover everything. Graduates with $70,000 in debt, unrealistic ideas about the standard of living he "needs", little understanding of how to manage his finances and plenty of fear to make him avoid the problem, and is unable to afford either that standard of living or his debt repayments. Spirals into deep debt for many years. Student B: Works part time through high school and has money saved for tuition. Takes out a small student loan to cover remaining expenses. Continues to work weekends so has a small amount of cash flow. Goes to a cheaper state university and gets used to the idea of living on rice and beans and keeping their clothes in milk crates. Graduates with perhaps $10,000 in debt, a good handle on their finances, an inexpensive lifestyle, and a solid plan for paying off the debt within a few years. Continues to wealth and prosperity. How much poverty and bad decisions could be prevented if more students took route B instead of route A? Do you still think it doesn't matter if we teach them financial independence or not?
thewarrior 11y ago
Not exactly related , but my grandmother often tells my parents : Pray to god that you and your children have long lives. Whatever comes afterwards , we can endure.
- hsitz 11y ago
  What is this supposed to mean? I don't see it as anything wise or insightful. It just sounds strange. Am I missing something?
sklogic 11y ago
Mathematics is an essential component of problem solving and critical thinking.
Revex 11y ago
Whoa.... Keep talking like that and you may get your self nominated to be elected. Keep on being Human bro. I love the spirit.
Toast_ 11y ago
The majority of what you said can be accomplished by Philosophy.

meesterdude 11y ago

I'm glad to see a comment like this; I feel precisely the same way.

Retric 11y ago

I don't think you can teach useful levels of Critical Thinking without a solid understanding of Math, Science, and Human behavior. But, programming can also help people think more deeply about problems. There is this huge realization that computers and by extension reality does not care about what's in your head only what is. You can argue that Math has similar levels of precision, but once people start getting partial credit some of that harshness is lost. That said, I don't think school should overly focus on directly useful skills or even what people studied in the past. How many lifetimes of highschool sudents where wasted learning how to identify and name Regular Polyhedra?

nmrm2 11y ago
Partial credit on a math problem is pretty analogous to still getting paid even though your code has bugs.
- Retric 11y ago
  ... or designing a bridge that looks nice, but falls down in the wind. Don't get me wrong I think we could just teach LOGO or other pure educational language for a few months. The goal IMO should be critical thought not jobs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)
  - nmrm2 11y ago
    Well then, it's probably good that we don't have school children design our bridges :-)
  - Delmania 11y ago
    I've reading the book, The Road to Character, and there's a chapter on Frances Perkins, the first female secretary of labor and one of the architects of the New Deal. She had a BA in Chemistry, not because she was good at it, but precisely because it wasn't a strength of hers. Her teachers had the opinion that if she "tough enough to major in her weakest subject, she'd be tough enough to weather whatever life threw at her". Considering her achievements later in life, I think there's some merit to those thoughts.
Jacqued 11y ago
I think you're employing an extremely narrow definition of critical thinking. The ability to question everything you read, hear and learn in search of the truth (what is), or, most likely, of more accurate or useful representations of it, is not dependent of your math or even science knowledge. At the end of the day, intellectual curiosity and a willingness to understand things are what you need to get ahead.
- mcguire 11y ago
  I know many people who question everything. Unfortunately, since they only accept answers that they come up with themselves or that match their other opinions, they tend to wind up having odd pseudo-conspiracy theories like denying global climate change.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  I don't think that's right. I read a lot of people who can spout off lots of pretty words on a topic, yet they can't actually begin to reason about it. E.g., lots of people will wax poetic about "critical thinking", yet they can't actually describe a way to determine whether someone lacks it or not. Math and science are, like it or not, the most effective tools we've cooked up to understand the world.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- sklogic 11y ago
  Ability to reason is entirely mathematical. Only the smartest can find solutions without applying formal methods, the rest of us have to employ mathematics in order to tell truth from lies.
McUsr 11y ago
I don't know about critical thinking in general, or science, but you definetively need some math courses, in order to get the necessary problem solving skills to be able to come up with clever solutions. Some people are born with those skills, or think in a similiar way, so those people, doesn't need learn the ability of mathematical reasoning. Nevertheless, the mathematical reasoning is mandatory if you want to be an excellent programmer. Together with a lot of other skills. I am thinking about the skillset you get by solving excercises in Calculus. Having a solid understanding of Discrete Mathematics and Statistics doesn't hurt either, depending on your problem area.

cousin_it 11y ago

What the next generation really needs is an economy where everyone can make a decent living with a modest effort, without having to desperately "outcompete" other job seekers. The US had that kind of economy at some point. Since we haven't lost any arcane secrets since then, it must be still achievable today.

Delmania 11y ago
Your comment is why I mentioned financial literacy and financial independence. The economy is a huge system with many moving parts, so while I do agree with your statement, I think you'd get a better ROI by teaching people how to manage money. I'm a huge fan of "Your Money or Your Life" and by extension the Financial Integrity program, which advocates for people to rethink their relationship with money as well teaches people how to make income regardless of employment status.
- totalrobe 11y ago
  Money management only really works when you make more than enough to afford the basics...half the population struggles just for housing, food, healthcare, and transportation.
  - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
    Many of whom are burning piles of money on $75/month smartphones and television subscriptions (with HBO so they can keep up with the Jones' who are also underwater).
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - fapjacks 11y ago
      Yes, the luxury lifestyle of the dirt poor. Good thing states like Kansas have made it illegal to use food stamps for cruises. Nip that one right in the bud.
  - 11y ago

wil421 11y ago

>Financial Independence Do other countries teach much about personal finance in High School or even College? I think this is one area that is lacking in US curriculum, at least when I graduated high school a decade ago. Sure I could budget a project but was I able to make informed and responsible financial decisions in my early/mid 20s? Students need to know the burdens that student loans are going to put on them after school ends. Parents may not know or remember what it was like to be a college kid trying to make ends meet. I saw many kids take heavy loans to live somewhat comfortably. Once they got "adult jobs" they still cant make ends meet after graduation due to loan repayments.

XorNot 11y ago
Except it really doesn't matter. You have a degree. Your parents probably had degrees. Your employers and co-workers have degrees. And they all expect you to have them when applying for jobs. Even the Silicon Valley startup crew tend to pivot wildly away from their "any one can make it" mentality once they start growing to "well, I want someone with a degree". Hell, my current company is hiring a nightshift person and the main requirement seems to be "Linux knowledge, has a degree". This is a job which basically burns people out after a year guaranteed.
- Kluny 11y ago
  So what? There is still lot of variation on how much you have to spend on that degree. Consider: Student A: Spends high school getting good grades and receiving an allowance from his parents. Attends an expensive private school. Takes out hefty loans to pay for school and the same standard of living he enjoyed with his parents. Has little financial help from his parents who figure that the student loans cover everything. Graduates with $70,000 in debt, unrealistic ideas about the standard of living he "needs", little understanding of how to manage his finances and plenty of fear to make him avoid the problem, and is unable to afford either that standard of living or his debt repayments. Spirals into deep debt for many years. Student B: Works part time through high school and has money saved for tuition. Takes out a small student loan to cover remaining expenses. Continues to work weekends so has a small amount of cash flow. Goes to a cheaper state university and gets used to the idea of living on rice and beans and keeping their clothes in milk crates. Graduates with perhaps $10,000 in debt, a good handle on their finances, an inexpensive lifestyle, and a solid plan for paying off the debt within a few years. Continues to wealth and prosperity. How much poverty and bad decisions could be prevented if more students took route B instead of route A? Do you still think it doesn't matter if we teach them financial independence or not?

thewarrior 11y ago

Not exactly related , but my grandmother often tells my parents : Pray to god that you and your children have long lives. Whatever comes afterwards , we can endure.

hsitz 11y ago
What is this supposed to mean? I don't see it as anything wise or insightful. It just sounds strange. Am I missing something?

sklogic 11y ago

Mathematics is an essential component of problem solving and critical thinking.

Revex 11y ago

Whoa.... Keep talking like that and you may get your self nominated to be elected. Keep on being Human bro. I love the spirit.

Toast_ 11y ago

The majority of what you said can be accomplished by Philosophy.