6 ms·

How a German Soda Became Hackers' Fuel of Choice (2014)

55 points by neokya 11y ago

chiph 11y ago
100mg of Caffeine? I tried a couple of cans of Jolt Cola back in the day, and with it's (then) 71mg of Caffeine I thought my brain was going to pop out of my skull. No idea how the drinkers of Club-Mate don't have health problems from this.
- tomkinstinch 11y ago
  Depending on your diet, it isn't so much caffeine. A cup of coffee can have 150mg: http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=8+fl+oz+coffee&x=0&y=0 http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=8+fl+oz+coffee&x=0&y=0
- pluma 11y ago
  Club Mate has 20mg/100ml. Red Bull, Rockstar, Monster and similar energy drinks have ~32mg/100ml (I've seen anything from 28 to 32, but 32 seems to be a legal limit and the most popular). A 500ml can of Rockstar or Monster has 160mg of caffeine. The caffeine content of regular caffeine pills I can buy at the pharmacy (plain packaging, just branded as "caffeine") is 0.2g per pill, i.e. 200mg (or 100mg per half). A cup of regular coffee typically contains about 95mg of caffeine. If a handful of servings of 100mg of caffeine per day would pose a major health risk, the majority of the population in developed nations would already be affected, whether they drink Club Mate or not. For reference: I would say that in a given day I don't think I've ever drunk more than two liters of Club Mate. Normally I drink about two bottles over the period of a work day. I barely ever drink it outside of work. I would say that on a typical day (including holidays and weekends) I consume between 100mg and 250mg of caffeine. That's the equivalent of one to two-and-a-half cups of coffee. EDIT: Google seems to agree that up to 400mg of caffeine a day is safe for most healthy adults. I should probably also point out that some people are just naturally very sensitive to caffeine, so that may explain why you reacted so strongly to Jolt Cola -- especially if you do not normally consume any other sources of caffeine like coffee, tea or dark chocolate.
- fennecfoxen 11y ago
  I don't want to be too down on peoples' beverage or anything. I enjoy a decent cup of coffee myself now and then. But... yeah, I'm also a little distressed at the culture of heavy drug use to get through the working day. "In crunch time I've had like 10 bottles in a day", says the Wikimedia engineer. Ugh. What other unhealthy habits should we start to be more productive at our jobs? Most of us probably have plenty of free sugary snacks in the office already, so perhaps we can start smoking or become alcoholics to relieve stress on the job?
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Especially since it's 5% sugar -- drinking 1.5 l or 2 l a day is bad enough, but 10 bottles (5 l) a day is going to be harmful.
- ourmandave 11y ago
  That's why I get diet Mt. Dew in their handy single-serving 2 liter bottles.
unwind 11y ago
Can we please have a [2014] on this? I've tried it once: I'm a hacker (at least in my own mind), so of course I had to try it when I spotted it in local grocery store here in Stockholm, Sweden. It didn't appeal to me and I'm not one for acquired tastes, I won't buy it again.
- guruz 11y ago
  Looking around here at the office I'm currently working in (in Berlin). I see 3 guys (including me) and 2 club mate bottles. Quite a ratio :-)
- pluma 11y ago
  I love it, but I can see why it doesn't appeal to some (most?) people. It's definitely an acquired taste and I don't think it would be as popular if it weren't for the high caffeine content and its popularity with the Chaos Computer Club in Germany. At this point in Germany it is actually mostly associated with university students rather than hackers in particular. It's certainly no longer as "underground" as it was a few years ago, even if it's still more popular with hackers than with any other subculture. Maybe I should point out that I don't like coffee and don't smoke. Even though I like Club Mate myself I generally don't expect people who've never drank it before to find it even remotely pleasant.
- legulere 11y ago
  I also didn't like it the first time but it was an interesting taste. So I tried it later again and got hooked. I think it's pretty comparable to coffee and beer which are also tastes you first have to learn.
buster 11y ago
Being from Berlin i've seen this come up, but it really doesn't taste that good and i think it is more of an insider/coolness/hipster thing. Pretty much like the typical berlin hipster used to drink Bionade[0]. By the way, mate tea itself tastes quite good and that's what people should drink. Club-Mate on the other hand tastes terrible and not so much like mate tea at all, imo. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade
- pluma 11y ago
  It's not about coolness/hipster, really. Though the recent surge in popularity certainly could be explained that way. I agree that the taste takes some getting used to. There's a reason the unofficial slogan is "Man gewöhnt sich d'ran" ("One gets used to it"). For me it's mostly the high caffeine content alongside a comparatively low sugar content (lower than any other energy drinks or other caffeinated soft drinks I've come across -- except for the "sugar free" ones). I tried sugar-free energy drinks for a while but I find the taste too jarring to get used to. I still drink sugar-free Red Bull on occasion (and actually prefer it to regular Red Bull) but I couldn't stand relying on it as my primary source of caffeine. Basically, Club Mate is my coffee. Red Bull is my espresso. I don't drink coffee (I can't stand the small) but I think that comparison probably works best. EDIT: Just noticed the article says the slogan "Man gewöhnt sich d'ran" is on the bottle. That seems wrong. I've never seen the slogan used officially. I always thought it was coined by its users, not the company itself.
  - spudlyo 11y ago
    From what little I know about German beverages, it seems like many of them have cool slogans. I used to drink Afri-cola back in the day, and I think the slogan was 'Kein Vergnuegen ohne Gefahr' or roughly 'No pleasure without danger'.
    - pluma 11y ago
      Afri-Cola intentionally positioned itself as exotic and exciting with very risqué advertising campaigns that probably wouldn't fly today (and only make sense if you are aware how prevalent drug use was at the time). I haven't come across that particular slogan, though. For reference, here's a few German beverages and official slogans: Afri-Cola: "Liebt einander und werdet durstig" / "Love each other and get thirsty" (1999) Bionade: "Das offizielle Getränk einer besseren Welt" / "The official beverage of a better world" (2007) Astra (beer): "Was dagegen?" / "Do you mind?" (1998) Fritz-Kola: "Vielviel Koffein" / "Muchmuch caffeine" [sic!] (2006) Bluna: "Sind wir nicht alle ein bisschen Bluna?" / "Aren't we all a bit Bluna?" (1995)
drivingmenuts 11y ago
“The first time you drink it,” Ohlig says, “it kind of tastes like horse urine filtered through hay.” That was a real selling point for me. :D
- pluma 11y ago
  When asked what it tastes like I generally say "like drinking Bionade[0] from an ashtray". I can't justify why I like it, really. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Yeah. In our hackerspace about half of the people love it (myself included), and the other half hates it. The most common description of the taste? Water filtered through cigarette butts.
ChrisArchitect 11y ago
february 2014 really? come on
- dang 11y ago
  It's totally fine to post older articles to HN. Those are some of the best things that appear here! If, however, an article has had significant attention in about the last year, we bury it as a duplicate. That applies here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078.
  - ChrisArchitect 11y ago
    I understand that, but not 'totally fine' in many cases...without the 2014 in the title, so misleading... the url being different on the other largely upvoted entry doesn't' help I guess..but geez, I dunno, I just always hope that submitters at least hesitate to post something from a year ago
panamafrank 11y ago
Real hackers drink 1337Mate ... http://www.1337mate.com/ http://www.1337mate.com/
- neokya 11y ago
  Interesting. On the site note, how do you pronounce the name?
  - kenrikm 11y ago
    leet mate
  - panamafrank 11y ago
    1337 maaatay ;)
- pluma 11y ago
  Interesting. I just ordered a crate for my company. The only alternative I was aware of so far was Oettinger Mate, which I personally found absolutely disgusting (in a bad way).
fit2rule 11y ago
Here at Metalab Vienna, Club-Mate is a regularly stocked item. The place closes down if there aren't a stack of crates piled high by the front door, waiting to be chilled and consumed by all and sundry. I've never been able to enjoy it. It does wake you up, though.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Same in Hackerspace Kraków. We stockpile crates of this stuff whenever our food budget allows. About half of the space hates it, but the other half can go through two crates in a single week.
WorldWideWayne 11y ago
I just get a 5 pound bag of actual yerba mate and drink that with some hot water - http://www.amazon.com/EcoTeas-Organic-Yerba-Loose-5-Pound/dp/B0012BSLWU http://www.amazon.com/EcoTeas-Organic-Yerba-Loose-5-Pound/dp...
tosseraccount 11y ago
I've had yerba mate, I prefer coffee. Yerba mate grows and is widely available in Argentina. In some South American countries, "coca mate" or coca tea (tea from the plant from which cocaine is made) is available. I'm thinking that would be a much more interesting, hip productivity drink.
ryan-c 11y ago
If anyone in the bay area wants some Club Mate, I've got at least a dozen cases left from a pallet I had imported last year and would be happy to sell some. Contact email in my profile.
- pimlottc 11y ago
  The Fizzery on Mission St stocks it last time I checked.
stox 11y ago
For those in the States interesting in finding Club Mate: http://club-mateusa.com/ http://club-mateusa.com/
ExpiredLink 11y ago
> Staying awake for lengthy stretches is key in both hacker and rave cultures Work smart, not hard - you you ain't no hacker.
- thisjepisje 11y ago
  Party smart, not hard? :P
Amorymeltzer 11y ago
Not Bawls? Not valid.
dang 11y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078
panamafrank 11y ago
Mate isn't just a hacker thing it's more from the clubbing scene and doesn't derive from yerba mate whatsoever. mate and all the other copy cats are just part of a wider german taste for dry soft drinks. When clubbing the low sugar content 20Cal/100ml means it doesn't give you cotton mouth when you're on speed or MDMA. It's so engrained into berlin clubbing culture you perform this ritual when you order a "vodka mate" or a "whisky mate" from a bar: they hand you the 500ml bottle (the 330ml is lame) then you take a big swig and hand it back, the bartender then free pours the spirit in topping it up, charging you depending how much you swigged and if you've tipped before. Fun fact! club mate is made in south germany so it's technically schwabisch and Schwabians are eternally made scapegoats for berlins gentrification... and so makes it all the more ironic when it's exclaimed "it's so berlin!"
evincarofautumn 11y ago
To those interested in sugar-free energy drinks, I must say that I emphatically recommend Hi-Ball[1] “sparkling energy water”. Artificial sweeteners all make me gag, so Hi-Ball is everything I’ve ever wanted in an energy drink: caffeine, B vitamins, bubbles, and light flavour. Das it! [1]: http://hiballer.com/ http://hiballer.com/

55 points by neokya 11y ago

chiph 11y ago

100mg of Caffeine? I tried a couple of cans of Jolt Cola back in the day, and with it's (then) 71mg of Caffeine I thought my brain was going to pop out of my skull. No idea how the drinkers of Club-Mate don't have health problems from this.

tomkinstinch 11y ago
Depending on your diet, it isn't so much caffeine. A cup of coffee can have 150mg: http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=8+fl+oz+coffee&x=0&y=0 http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=8+fl+oz+coffee&x=0&y=0
pluma 11y ago
Club Mate has 20mg/100ml. Red Bull, Rockstar, Monster and similar energy drinks have ~32mg/100ml (I've seen anything from 28 to 32, but 32 seems to be a legal limit and the most popular). A 500ml can of Rockstar or Monster has 160mg of caffeine. The caffeine content of regular caffeine pills I can buy at the pharmacy (plain packaging, just branded as "caffeine") is 0.2g per pill, i.e. 200mg (or 100mg per half). A cup of regular coffee typically contains about 95mg of caffeine. If a handful of servings of 100mg of caffeine per day would pose a major health risk, the majority of the population in developed nations would already be affected, whether they drink Club Mate or not. For reference: I would say that in a given day I don't think I've ever drunk more than two liters of Club Mate. Normally I drink about two bottles over the period of a work day. I barely ever drink it outside of work. I would say that on a typical day (including holidays and weekends) I consume between 100mg and 250mg of caffeine. That's the equivalent of one to two-and-a-half cups of coffee. EDIT: Google seems to agree that up to 400mg of caffeine a day is safe for most healthy adults. I should probably also point out that some people are just naturally very sensitive to caffeine, so that may explain why you reacted so strongly to Jolt Cola -- especially if you do not normally consume any other sources of caffeine like coffee, tea or dark chocolate.
fennecfoxen 11y ago
I don't want to be too down on peoples' beverage or anything. I enjoy a decent cup of coffee myself now and then. But... yeah, I'm also a little distressed at the culture of heavy drug use to get through the working day. "In crunch time I've had like 10 bottles in a day", says the Wikimedia engineer. Ugh. What other unhealthy habits should we start to be more productive at our jobs? Most of us probably have plenty of free sugary snacks in the office already, so perhaps we can start smoking or become alcoholics to relieve stress on the job?
- DanBC 11y ago
  Especially since it's 5% sugar -- drinking 1.5 l or 2 l a day is bad enough, but 10 bottles (5 l) a day is going to be harmful.
ourmandave 11y ago
That's why I get diet Mt. Dew in their handy single-serving 2 liter bottles.

unwind 11y ago

Can we please have a [2014] on this? I've tried it once: I'm a hacker (at least in my own mind), so of course I had to try it when I spotted it in local grocery store here in Stockholm, Sweden. It didn't appeal to me and I'm not one for acquired tastes, I won't buy it again.

guruz 11y ago
Looking around here at the office I'm currently working in (in Berlin). I see 3 guys (including me) and 2 club mate bottles. Quite a ratio :-)
pluma 11y ago
I love it, but I can see why it doesn't appeal to some (most?) people. It's definitely an acquired taste and I don't think it would be as popular if it weren't for the high caffeine content and its popularity with the Chaos Computer Club in Germany. At this point in Germany it is actually mostly associated with university students rather than hackers in particular. It's certainly no longer as "underground" as it was a few years ago, even if it's still more popular with hackers than with any other subculture. Maybe I should point out that I don't like coffee and don't smoke. Even though I like Club Mate myself I generally don't expect people who've never drank it before to find it even remotely pleasant.
legulere 11y ago
I also didn't like it the first time but it was an interesting taste. So I tried it later again and got hooked. I think it's pretty comparable to coffee and beer which are also tastes you first have to learn.

buster 11y ago

Being from Berlin i've seen this come up, but it really doesn't taste that good and i think it is more of an insider/coolness/hipster thing. Pretty much like the typical berlin hipster used to drink Bionade[0]. By the way, mate tea itself tastes quite good and that's what people should drink. Club-Mate on the other hand tastes terrible and not so much like mate tea at all, imo. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade

pluma 11y ago
It's not about coolness/hipster, really. Though the recent surge in popularity certainly could be explained that way. I agree that the taste takes some getting used to. There's a reason the unofficial slogan is "Man gewöhnt sich d'ran" ("One gets used to it"). For me it's mostly the high caffeine content alongside a comparatively low sugar content (lower than any other energy drinks or other caffeinated soft drinks I've come across -- except for the "sugar free" ones). I tried sugar-free energy drinks for a while but I find the taste too jarring to get used to. I still drink sugar-free Red Bull on occasion (and actually prefer it to regular Red Bull) but I couldn't stand relying on it as my primary source of caffeine. Basically, Club Mate is my coffee. Red Bull is my espresso. I don't drink coffee (I can't stand the small) but I think that comparison probably works best. EDIT: Just noticed the article says the slogan "Man gewöhnt sich d'ran" is on the bottle. That seems wrong. I've never seen the slogan used officially. I always thought it was coined by its users, not the company itself.
- spudlyo 11y ago
  From what little I know about German beverages, it seems like many of them have cool slogans. I used to drink Afri-cola back in the day, and I think the slogan was 'Kein Vergnuegen ohne Gefahr' or roughly 'No pleasure without danger'.
  - pluma 11y ago
    Afri-Cola intentionally positioned itself as exotic and exciting with very risqué advertising campaigns that probably wouldn't fly today (and only make sense if you are aware how prevalent drug use was at the time). I haven't come across that particular slogan, though. For reference, here's a few German beverages and official slogans: Afri-Cola: "Liebt einander und werdet durstig" / "Love each other and get thirsty" (1999) Bionade: "Das offizielle Getränk einer besseren Welt" / "The official beverage of a better world" (2007) Astra (beer): "Was dagegen?" / "Do you mind?" (1998) Fritz-Kola: "Vielviel Koffein" / "Muchmuch caffeine" [sic!] (2006) Bluna: "Sind wir nicht alle ein bisschen Bluna?" / "Aren't we all a bit Bluna?" (1995)

drivingmenuts 11y ago

“The first time you drink it,” Ohlig says, “it kind of tastes like horse urine filtered through hay.” That was a real selling point for me. :D

pluma 11y ago
When asked what it tastes like I generally say "like drinking Bionade[0] from an ashtray". I can't justify why I like it, really. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionade
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Yeah. In our hackerspace about half of the people love it (myself included), and the other half hates it. The most common description of the taste? Water filtered through cigarette butts.

ChrisArchitect 11y ago

february 2014 really? come on

dang 11y ago
It's totally fine to post older articles to HN. Those are some of the best things that appear here! If, however, an article has had significant attention in about the last year, we bury it as a duplicate. That applies here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078.
- ChrisArchitect 11y ago
  I understand that, but not 'totally fine' in many cases...without the 2014 in the title, so misleading... the url being different on the other largely upvoted entry doesn't' help I guess..but geez, I dunno, I just always hope that submitters at least hesitate to post something from a year ago

panamafrank 11y ago

Real hackers drink 1337Mate ... http://www.1337mate.com/ http://www.1337mate.com/

neokya 11y ago
Interesting. On the site note, how do you pronounce the name?
- kenrikm 11y ago
  leet mate
- panamafrank 11y ago
  1337 maaatay ;)
pluma 11y ago
Interesting. I just ordered a crate for my company. The only alternative I was aware of so far was Oettinger Mate, which I personally found absolutely disgusting (in a bad way).

fit2rule 11y ago

Here at Metalab Vienna, Club-Mate is a regularly stocked item. The place closes down if there aren't a stack of crates piled high by the front door, waiting to be chilled and consumed by all and sundry. I've never been able to enjoy it. It does wake you up, though.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
Same in Hackerspace Kraków. We stockpile crates of this stuff whenever our food budget allows. About half of the space hates it, but the other half can go through two crates in a single week.

WorldWideWayne 11y ago

I just get a 5 pound bag of actual yerba mate and drink that with some hot water - http://www.amazon.com/EcoTeas-Organic-Yerba-Loose-5-Pound/dp/B0012BSLWU http://www.amazon.com/EcoTeas-Organic-Yerba-Loose-5-Pound/dp...

tosseraccount 11y ago

I've had yerba mate, I prefer coffee. Yerba mate grows and is widely available in Argentina. In some South American countries, "coca mate" or coca tea (tea from the plant from which cocaine is made) is available. I'm thinking that would be a much more interesting, hip productivity drink.

ryan-c 11y ago

If anyone in the bay area wants some Club Mate, I've got at least a dozen cases left from a pallet I had imported last year and would be happy to sell some. Contact email in my profile.

pimlottc 11y ago
The Fizzery on Mission St stocks it last time I checked.

stox 11y ago

For those in the States interesting in finding Club Mate: http://club-mateusa.com/ http://club-mateusa.com/

ExpiredLink 11y ago

> Staying awake for lengthy stretches is key in both hacker and rave cultures Work smart, not hard - you you ain't no hacker.

thisjepisje 11y ago
Party smart, not hard? :P

Amorymeltzer 11y ago

Not Bawls? Not valid.

dang 11y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725078

panamafrank 11y ago

Mate isn't just a hacker thing it's more from the clubbing scene and doesn't derive from yerba mate whatsoever. mate and all the other copy cats are just part of a wider german taste for dry soft drinks. When clubbing the low sugar content 20Cal/100ml means it doesn't give you cotton mouth when you're on speed or MDMA. It's so engrained into berlin clubbing culture you perform this ritual when you order a "vodka mate" or a "whisky mate" from a bar: they hand you the 500ml bottle (the 330ml is lame) then you take a big swig and hand it back, the bartender then free pours the spirit in topping it up, charging you depending how much you swigged and if you've tipped before. Fun fact! club mate is made in south germany so it's technically schwabisch and Schwabians are eternally made scapegoats for berlins gentrification... and so makes it all the more ironic when it's exclaimed "it's so berlin!"

evincarofautumn 11y ago

To those interested in sugar-free energy drinks, I must say that I emphatically recommend Hi-Ball[1] “sparkling energy water”. Artificial sweeteners all make me gag, so Hi-Ball is everything I’ve ever wanted in an energy drink: caffeine, B vitamins, bubbles, and light flavour. Das it! [1]: http://hiballer.com/ http://hiballer.com/