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Many journalists don't understand how Swiss political system works. We have a direct (not representative) democracy here. Most issues are resolved on the refere

Many journalists don't understand how Swiss political system works. We have a direct (not representative) democracy here. Most issues are resolved on the referendums happening every two months. All kinds of issues — new taxes, foreign relations, public projects — all is subject to direct vote of the Swiss people, who have all law-making authority here (systematically regulated). The direct consequence of this otherwise excellent system is that basically anyone can collect 20,000 signatures and introduce his or her idea to the public voting, no matter how crazy it looks like. This is one of such cases. We already had law suggestions like make all public transportation free (didn't pass), abolish Swiss army (many times — didn't pass), disallow construction of minarets (passed), etc. The guaranteed basic income law has been rejected with a huge margin — because Swiss people have basic understanding of who would have been paying for this, and who wouldn't.

yodsanklai 11y ago
> no matter how crazy it looks like. This is one of such cases. It doesn't sound so crazy to me :) > Swiss people have basic understanding of who would have been paying for this, and who wouldn't Can you be more specific?
- Kesty 11y ago
  They belive what the party tell them to vote.
colechristensen 11y ago
Several US states have, let's say, prolific referendums which likewise result in large numbers of wonky proposals on the ballot. Many state legislatures themselves (the bar for entry in some cases can be very low) often have absurd proposed laws that journalists tend to exaggerate the reality of because a small number of nutjobs manage to get themselves elected.
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  Swiss cantons are a lot smaller than even Rhode Island (by area) or Wyoming (by population). From memory Switzerland has 5 million people and 32 cantons. Municipalities are also free to secede and form their own canton or join a neighbouring canton. Referenda aren't just a national thing either, they have them at every level of government. This all probably contributes to how well it works, that and the extremely strong political culture of consensus, and the way the federal government is organised. The Premiers of each canton sitting in forum are the Swiss federal government, and all decisions are made unanimously. It's a very conservative system. The only country I've ever visited that gave the same impression of having the same level of organisation and competence as Switzerland was Singapore.
  - thwd 11y ago
    Small correction: 26 cantons, 8 million people. And the representatives of the cantons do not constitute the federal government.
fensipens 11y ago
Swiss people, who have all law-making authority here Law making is done by the two chambers of parliament, National- and Ständerat. General constitutional amendments as well as particular laws can make their way to the electorate but that does not happen automatically. Edit: If by "introducing his or her idea to the public voting" you mean constitutional amendments.. they require 100k signatures, not 20k. Why don't you look these things up, patriot? > because Swiss people have basic understanding.. > Many journalists don't understand how Swiss political system works.. > this otherwise excellent system.. Right.. swiss people are so smart. Like that one time where they didn't have any problems with institutional child-slavery for decades.. and the other time where they started to trample on rights of religious minorities.. I could go on.
- stefantalpalaru 11y ago
  For those wondering about the child slavery part: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29765623 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29765623
- andresmanz 11y ago
  Well, direct democracy isn't much good when the majority of people aren't able to think for themselves. Or think at all. Being Swiss myself, I sometimes get that impression at least.
- thwd 11y ago
  Even though you're right that most laws are passed by the chambers, the people still have the power to put them up for voting (or put a second law up for voting that invalidates the first) by just gathering a couple of thousand signatures. In that sense the people really do have the final word in legislative matters. Obviously swiss people are not born smarter than the rest of the world, but the education standard is quite okay and even though populism exists (as everywhere), Switzerland is doing better than any of it's neighbors right now, thanks to the decisions that the people have made. The child-slavery thing is a black stain in our history, and we're aware. You can stop throwing rocks down from your glass house now.
crimsonalucard 11y ago
>The direct consequence of this otherwise excellent system is that basically anyone can collect 20,000 signatures and introduce his or her idea to the public voting, no matter how crazy it looks like. This is one of such cases. You realize that this is a good thing? Power is unjustly concentrated among the rich in a representative democracy. This occurs because only the rich have enough money to campaign and advertise the "representative."
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- nine_k 11y ago
  Switzerland's direct democracy exists continuously since 1848, longer than many European representative democracies.
  - dagw 11y ago
    And universal suffrage at all levels since 1990.
- landryraccoon 11y ago
  The California proposition system doesn't seem to be working out too well.
  - crimsonalucard 11y ago
    You need rich people to campaign the proposition.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    That's because everything the people of California vote for gets stuck in the courts for decades after it passes.
- akhatri_aus 11y ago
  It's also a problem as anything unpopular but necessary will never become law or action.
personlurking 11y ago
> abolish Swiss army In the "Would you be willing to fight for your country?" image [1] that's been circulating, Switzerland comes in at 39% (and the US at 44%). That said, I cannot account for the methodology used in this alleged poll. http://i.imgur.com/pYQkLUi.png http://i.imgur.com/pYQkLUi.png
- icebraining 11y ago
  Lies, damned lies and surveys. The actual question was "If there were a war that involved <country>, would you be willing to fight for your country?" which is much more ambiguous. For example, technically the Iraq War involved my country (our PM was the butler in the meeting in Azores where they declared war, and we deployed troops there), but it wasn't a fight for our country like the short version of the question implies.
nkoren 11y ago
> The guaranteed basic income law has been rejected with a huge margin Source please? I've seen several people say this, but inevitably they were conflating the basic income proposal with the 10x salary-cap proposal, which indeed was rejected by a substantial margin. I was under the impression that the basic income proposal had not, in fact, been voted on yet.
- andresmanz 11y ago
  That's correct. The voting will be in 2016. If he means that many people are rejecting the idea, I can't confirm that. I've heard and read at least as many positive comments as negative ones.

yodsanklai 11y ago

> no matter how crazy it looks like. This is one of such cases. It doesn't sound so crazy to me :) > Swiss people have basic understanding of who would have been paying for this, and who wouldn't Can you be more specific?

Kesty 11y ago
They belive what the party tell them to vote.

colechristensen 11y ago

Several US states have, let's say, prolific referendums which likewise result in large numbers of wonky proposals on the ballot. Many state legislatures themselves (the bar for entry in some cases can be very low) often have absurd proposed laws that journalists tend to exaggerate the reality of because a small number of nutjobs manage to get themselves elected.

barry-cotter 11y ago
Swiss cantons are a lot smaller than even Rhode Island (by area) or Wyoming (by population). From memory Switzerland has 5 million people and 32 cantons. Municipalities are also free to secede and form their own canton or join a neighbouring canton. Referenda aren't just a national thing either, they have them at every level of government. This all probably contributes to how well it works, that and the extremely strong political culture of consensus, and the way the federal government is organised. The Premiers of each canton sitting in forum are the Swiss federal government, and all decisions are made unanimously. It's a very conservative system. The only country I've ever visited that gave the same impression of having the same level of organisation and competence as Switzerland was Singapore.
- thwd 11y ago
  Small correction: 26 cantons, 8 million people. And the representatives of the cantons do not constitute the federal government.

fensipens 11y ago

Swiss people, who have all law-making authority here Law making is done by the two chambers of parliament, National- and Ständerat. General constitutional amendments as well as particular laws can make their way to the electorate but that does not happen automatically. Edit: If by "introducing his or her idea to the public voting" you mean constitutional amendments.. they require 100k signatures, not 20k. Why don't you look these things up, patriot? > because Swiss people have basic understanding.. > Many journalists don't understand how Swiss political system works.. > this otherwise excellent system.. Right.. swiss people are so smart. Like that one time where they didn't have any problems with institutional child-slavery for decades.. and the other time where they started to trample on rights of religious minorities.. I could go on.

stefantalpalaru 11y ago
For those wondering about the child slavery part: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29765623 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29765623
andresmanz 11y ago
Well, direct democracy isn't much good when the majority of people aren't able to think for themselves. Or think at all. Being Swiss myself, I sometimes get that impression at least.
thwd 11y ago
Even though you're right that most laws are passed by the chambers, the people still have the power to put them up for voting (or put a second law up for voting that invalidates the first) by just gathering a couple of thousand signatures. In that sense the people really do have the final word in legislative matters. Obviously swiss people are not born smarter than the rest of the world, but the education standard is quite okay and even though populism exists (as everywhere), Switzerland is doing better than any of it's neighbors right now, thanks to the decisions that the people have made. The child-slavery thing is a black stain in our history, and we're aware. You can stop throwing rocks down from your glass house now.

crimsonalucard 11y ago

>The direct consequence of this otherwise excellent system is that basically anyone can collect 20,000 signatures and introduce his or her idea to the public voting, no matter how crazy it looks like. This is one of such cases. You realize that this is a good thing? Power is unjustly concentrated among the rich in a representative democracy. This occurs because only the rich have enough money to campaign and advertise the "representative."

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
nine_k 11y ago
Switzerland's direct democracy exists continuously since 1848, longer than many European representative democracies.
- dagw 11y ago
  And universal suffrage at all levels since 1990.
landryraccoon 11y ago
The California proposition system doesn't seem to be working out too well.
- crimsonalucard 11y ago
  You need rich people to campaign the proposition.
- tsotha 11y ago
  That's because everything the people of California vote for gets stuck in the courts for decades after it passes.
akhatri_aus 11y ago
It's also a problem as anything unpopular but necessary will never become law or action.

personlurking 11y ago

> abolish Swiss army In the "Would you be willing to fight for your country?" image [1] that's been circulating, Switzerland comes in at 39% (and the US at 44%). That said, I cannot account for the methodology used in this alleged poll. http://i.imgur.com/pYQkLUi.png http://i.imgur.com/pYQkLUi.png

icebraining 11y ago
Lies, damned lies and surveys. The actual question was "If there were a war that involved <country>, would you be willing to fight for your country?" which is much more ambiguous. For example, technically the Iraq War involved my country (our PM was the butler in the meeting in Azores where they declared war, and we deployed troops there), but it wasn't a fight for our country like the short version of the question implies.

nkoren 11y ago

> The guaranteed basic income law has been rejected with a huge margin Source please? I've seen several people say this, but inevitably they were conflating the basic income proposal with the 10x salary-cap proposal, which indeed was rejected by a substantial margin. I was under the impression that the basic income proposal had not, in fact, been voted on yet.

andresmanz 11y ago
That's correct. The voting will be in 2016. If he means that many people are rejecting the idea, I can't confirm that. I've heard and read at least as many positive comments as negative ones.