6 ms·

It doesn't matter what attitudes change, the community relationship between police and citizens will not be repaired till at least my generation is dead (mid 30

by joesmo 11y ago

It doesn't matter what attitudes change, the community relationship between police and citizens will not be repaired till at least my generation is dead (mid 30s) but more likely till at least three current generation of young people is dead. And that only if dramatic changes happen now. Otherwise things will continue to degrade and the police will continue to arrest and kill innocent people for committing crimes that are victim less and shouldn't be crimes at all. The irony is, of course, that being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job. That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who aren't like this but that doesn't disprove the fact that the majority are. Then you add their racism to the mix... Cowards will be cowards.

bdcravens 11y ago
> The irony is, of course, that being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job. http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers-shot-dead/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers... Routine traffic stop. Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request. > That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who aren't like this but that doesn't disprove the fact that the majority are. Then you add their racism to the mix... Cowards will be cowards. Congratulations, I think this is the most bigoted and stereotyping post I have ever read on Hacker News. Ever.
- beat 11y ago
  Being a taxi driver is actually more dangerous than being a police officer. http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/ http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/
  - bdcravens 11y ago
    Problem: Larger cities have taxis; many smaller communities do not. Every town have police. For your example to be fair, you'd have to restrict the statistics to only cities that have both police and taxis.
    - beat 11y ago
      Do you think it would really move the needle that much? And for that matter, there are numerous other jobs more dangerous than being a police officer. The point being that being a police officer isn't as dangerous as many other professions that aren't considered dangerous.
      - bdcravens 11y ago
        I think statistic lie if you consider a police officer in Detroit or Chicago having the same risk as a police officer in rural Oklahoma. I do believe the statistics would be drastically different for those two groups, and until we have honest statistics, I don't see how we can come up with any conclusion one way or the other. (Unless you're a cop of course, and can speak based on experience, but let's face it, most of us are a bunch of nerds using our elite Googling to verify and prove our version of the world)
- Jtsummers 11y ago
  > Congratulations, I think this is the most bigoted and stereotyping post I have ever read on Hacker News. Ever. DamnYuppie: > We have large populations of minorities who feel entitled to behave badly without any consequence because the color of their skin. I dunno. DamnYuppie may be winning. At least joesmo is bigoted against people because of their chosen profession. Unlike DamnYuppie who's bigoted against people for the color of their skin.
  - bdcravens 11y ago
    Both are pretty bigoted. However, he wasn't attacking a profession, as much as was implying that it's somehow a fact that the majority of the group, simply because of their chosen profession, are racists and cowards. Pure bigotry.
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    Well there is a growing backlash against SJW so accusation in bigotry is not a big deal in growing segment of the population.
- stonogo 11y ago
  Your single example means nothing. There are (at conservative estimate) around 750,000 law officers w/ arrest powers in the USA. 114 were killed in 2014. This is a 0.016% mortality rate -- and this number includes accidental deaths while on duty. This is about the same percentage as murders only in Chicago -- meaning the population of Chicago is, on average, in more danger just existing than any given police officer is while armed and on duty.
  - happyscrappy 11y ago
    Let's just ignore who is committing all those murders in Chicago.
  - bdcravens 11y ago
    First off, statistics: For your analogy to be fair, you'd need to compare mortality among police in Chicago, not nationwide police mortality, since an officer, like a citizen, is under great threat in Chicago than rural Kansas. Even so, you can compare the job to anything, and find statistics that sound more impressive. More children die via drowning in swimming pools than by gunshot wounds, but that doesn't mean that gun control discussions are immediately null and void. I have been places in life, and known people, that have an intense hatred for cops and are happy to express their desire for an open season on them. People that if facing arrest for something small, will use any weapon at their disposal - gun, knife, vehicle - to get away. The fact that someone doesn't know of this world - it's not proof it doesn't exist, but simply a blessing for that person. There are very, very bad people in this world, that if given the chance would take your MacBook, your iPhone, your iPad, and your money. "But but.. you don't understand! They'd never hurt me! I retweet about social injustice!" There's some very, very bad cops who abuse their authority. But for someone to say that there's no danger is incredulous.
    - stonogo 11y ago
      Nobody is saying the job is completely free of danger. We're saying they don't need MRAPs and assault rifles. You don't get to exclude the middle ground here. And fuck your passing dig at accusing me of armchair activism; I've served in actual wars, as infantry, where I was less well-equipped than some of these suburban police departments. I am fully aware that danger exists, and what it looks like. It is being overstated.
- dllthomas 11y ago
  "Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request." Pretty sure developer isn't the line for "very dangerous job".
  - bdcravens 11y ago
    I agree, but the feeling I was getting from joesmo was that law enforcement was just another job, with little risk.
    - dllthomas 11y ago
      Compared to many blue collar jobs, that's the case. By the numbers, it's about twice as dangerous as being a car mechanic and significantly less so than being a construction worker. Further, most deaths of police officers on duty aren't from violence.
- NoGravitas 11y ago
  "Police officer" is in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US...but only barely. It's number 10 after fishing, logging, aircraft pilots and flight engineers, farmers and ranchers, mining, roofing, trash collection, truck driving, and stuntmen. (Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs.ht...). Remember to thank your garbageman.
- joesmo 11y ago
  I didn't say it was safer than programming. One example does not a dangerous job make. If you were threatened with death by police officers for using a public sidewalk or had any clue at all about what police do in this country you'd feel the same too. It's not bigotry, it's a war. Police versus people. You're just too stupid to see it. Or too white possibly.
hga 11y ago
Given how they slaughter dogs when given a chance, sometimes even when the dogs are running away, your thesis looks awfully good.
- brightsize 11y ago
  Hell, a cop executed one of my Dad's old cats one night here in this small town. He allegedly thought it looked "rabid" (it was just ancient, maybe drooling, very, very slow-moving). Call animal control? Call a vet? To hell with that, he wanted to have some shootin' fun, and of course he got away with it, stopping the fearsome, waddling, threat-to-nobody beast in its tracks. In a residential neighborhood. Big man, that cop.
Thriptic 11y ago
> That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who aren't like this but that doesn't disprove the fact that the majority are. Then you add their racism to the mix... Cowards will be cowards. Ah yes, let's demonize a large, heterogeneous group of people because they seem to be inappropriately making generalizations about a large, heterogeneous group of people....
shit_parade2 11y ago
One reason the US has a policing problem is because of the reflexive and thoughtless defense people give them. How many more Chicago Blacksites, 'accidental' deaths while in custody, and shooting and killing of unarmed citizens do people need to have happen before the cop apologists stop their hero worship excuse making?

by joesmo 11y ago

bdcravens 11y ago

> The irony is, of course, that being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job. http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers-shot-dead/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers... Routine traffic stop. Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request. > That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who aren't like this but that doesn't disprove the fact that the majority are. Then you add their racism to the mix... Cowards will be cowards. Congratulations, I think this is the most bigoted and stereotyping post I have ever read on Hacker News. Ever.

beat 11y ago
Being a taxi driver is actually more dangerous than being a police officer. http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/ http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/
- bdcravens 11y ago
  Problem: Larger cities have taxis; many smaller communities do not. Every town have police. For your example to be fair, you'd have to restrict the statistics to only cities that have both police and taxis.
  - beat 11y ago
    Do you think it would really move the needle that much? And for that matter, there are numerous other jobs more dangerous than being a police officer. The point being that being a police officer isn't as dangerous as many other professions that aren't considered dangerous.
    - bdcravens 11y ago
      I think statistic lie if you consider a police officer in Detroit or Chicago having the same risk as a police officer in rural Oklahoma. I do believe the statistics would be drastically different for those two groups, and until we have honest statistics, I don't see how we can come up with any conclusion one way or the other. (Unless you're a cop of course, and can speak based on experience, but let's face it, most of us are a bunch of nerds using our elite Googling to verify and prove our version of the world)
Jtsummers 11y ago
> Congratulations, I think this is the most bigoted and stereotyping post I have ever read on Hacker News. Ever. DamnYuppie: > We have large populations of minorities who feel entitled to behave badly without any consequence because the color of their skin. I dunno. DamnYuppie may be winning. At least joesmo is bigoted against people because of their chosen profession. Unlike DamnYuppie who's bigoted against people for the color of their skin.
- bdcravens 11y ago
  Both are pretty bigoted. However, he wasn't attacking a profession, as much as was implying that it's somehow a fact that the majority of the group, simply because of their chosen profession, are racists and cowards. Pure bigotry.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  Well there is a growing backlash against SJW so accusation in bigotry is not a big deal in growing segment of the population.
stonogo 11y ago
Your single example means nothing. There are (at conservative estimate) around 750,000 law officers w/ arrest powers in the USA. 114 were killed in 2014. This is a 0.016% mortality rate -- and this number includes accidental deaths while on duty. This is about the same percentage as murders only in Chicago -- meaning the population of Chicago is, on average, in more danger just existing than any given police officer is while armed and on duty.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  Let's just ignore who is committing all those murders in Chicago.
- bdcravens 11y ago
  First off, statistics: For your analogy to be fair, you'd need to compare mortality among police in Chicago, not nationwide police mortality, since an officer, like a citizen, is under great threat in Chicago than rural Kansas. Even so, you can compare the job to anything, and find statistics that sound more impressive. More children die via drowning in swimming pools than by gunshot wounds, but that doesn't mean that gun control discussions are immediately null and void. I have been places in life, and known people, that have an intense hatred for cops and are happy to express their desire for an open season on them. People that if facing arrest for something small, will use any weapon at their disposal - gun, knife, vehicle - to get away. The fact that someone doesn't know of this world - it's not proof it doesn't exist, but simply a blessing for that person. There are very, very bad people in this world, that if given the chance would take your MacBook, your iPhone, your iPad, and your money. "But but.. you don't understand! They'd never hurt me! I retweet about social injustice!" There's some very, very bad cops who abuse their authority. But for someone to say that there's no danger is incredulous.
  - stonogo 11y ago
    Nobody is saying the job is completely free of danger. We're saying they don't need MRAPs and assault rifles. You don't get to exclude the middle ground here. And fuck your passing dig at accusing me of armchair activism; I've served in actual wars, as infantry, where I was less well-equipped than some of these suburban police departments. I am fully aware that danger exists, and what it looks like. It is being overstated.
dllthomas 11y ago
"Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request." Pretty sure developer isn't the line for "very dangerous job".
- bdcravens 11y ago
  I agree, but the feeling I was getting from joesmo was that law enforcement was just another job, with little risk.
  - dllthomas 11y ago
    Compared to many blue collar jobs, that's the case. By the numbers, it's about twice as dangerous as being a car mechanic and significantly less so than being a construction worker. Further, most deaths of police officers on duty aren't from violence.
NoGravitas 11y ago
"Police officer" is in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US...but only barely. It's number 10 after fishing, logging, aircraft pilots and flight engineers, farmers and ranchers, mining, roofing, trash collection, truck driving, and stuntmen. (Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs.ht...). Remember to thank your garbageman.
joesmo 11y ago
I didn't say it was safer than programming. One example does not a dangerous job make. If you were threatened with death by police officers for using a public sidewalk or had any clue at all about what police do in this country you'd feel the same too. It's not bigotry, it's a war. Police versus people. You're just too stupid to see it. Or too white possibly.

hga 11y ago

Given how they slaughter dogs when given a chance, sometimes even when the dogs are running away, your thesis looks awfully good.

brightsize 11y ago
Hell, a cop executed one of my Dad's old cats one night here in this small town. He allegedly thought it looked "rabid" (it was just ancient, maybe drooling, very, very slow-moving). Call animal control? Call a vet? To hell with that, he wanted to have some shootin' fun, and of course he got away with it, stopping the fearsome, waddling, threat-to-nobody beast in its tracks. In a residential neighborhood. Big man, that cop.

Thriptic 11y ago

> That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who aren't like this but that doesn't disprove the fact that the majority are. Then you add their racism to the mix... Cowards will be cowards. Ah yes, let's demonize a large, heterogeneous group of people because they seem to be inappropriately making generalizations about a large, heterogeneous group of people....

shit_parade2 11y ago

One reason the US has a policing problem is because of the reflexive and thoughtless defense people give them. How many more Chicago Blacksites, 'accidental' deaths while in custody, and shooting and killing of unarmed citizens do people need to have happen before the cop apologists stop their hero worship excuse making?