4 ms·

A lot of beating around the bush; just say the US and/or Isreal did it. We already know Duqu was made by the same people who made Stuxnet. We already know Stux

A lot of beating around the bush; just say the US and/or Isreal did it. We already know Duqu was made by the same people who made Stuxnet. We already know Stuxnet was made by the US and/or Isreal to hurt the Iranian nuclear program. So if they have strong evidence it was the same people... we know who those people are and we should just say their names.

x5n1 11y ago
Kaspersky has been a pain in the ass of the status quo because they are Russian and so it's difficult to control them and rein them in. Lots of exploits depends on the cooperation and complacency of security companies that are in the pocket of the various governments. Kaspersky wasn't one of these, or at least in the pockets of Russia, and so had to be compromised to try to control their oversight on security and to further the chances of exploits succeeding. Good on them for detecting the exploit, now they know that they are valid targets for this sort of thing.
- tptacek 11y ago
  Who is trying to control and rein in antivirus companies?
  - obstinate 11y ago
    The Illuminati. Come on. As a security researcher, you should know this. /s
  - x5n1 11y ago
    https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/12/how_antivirus_c.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/12/how_antivirus...
    - wglb 11y ago
      That is, nobody: they claim they have never received a request to not detect malware.
      - anon1385 11y ago
        I think you need to look more closely at the list of companies and their locations in the second paragraph, and the list of companies that actually replied to the letter. But we don't actually have to speculate about what the silence of the american companies means: they are quite open about their policies: http://slashdot.org/story/01/11/28/173201/symantec-will-not-detect-magic-lantern http://slashdot.org/story/01/11/28/173201/symantec-will-not-... >Symantec chief researcher Eric Chien stated that provided a hypothetical keystroke logging tool was used only by the FBI, Symantec would avoid updating its antivirus tools to detect such a Trojan, echoing a similar stance Network Associates allegedly took with its McAfee anti-virus software earlier this week. 'If it was under the control of the FBI, with appropriate technical safeguards in place to prevent possible misuse, and nobody else used it -- we wouldn't detect it,' said Chien. 'However we would detect modified versions that might be used by hackers.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Antivirus companies do not need government coercion not to detect malware. They do a pretty good job of that all by themselves.
- mc32 11y ago
  I'm sure it knew it was a target for this kind of thing since they did exhibit bias. That is to say they showed greater interest in exposing western gov't hacking capabilities and activities than they did in exposing Russian and Chinese govt actors in the same arena. I'm sure this is no surprise to them.
  - x5n1 11y ago
    > than they did in exposing Russian and Chinese govt actors in the same arena. That's the job of Western companies. Keeps everyone honest. Western companies have as much bias as anyone, they are just good at covering it up with rhetoric... and Americans are good at deluding themselves about their own bias and Nationalism which is no different from anyone else's. > On balance, with the current regimes in those countries, I prefer the western alternative to these regimes. It's not as if they are equivalent just with a different opinion. I truly prefer my western govt's over Russia and China's. I do too. However, no one is as clean, just, and fair as they make themselves out to be. Everyone who plays geopolitics is dirty as shit. I like my government because it treats me well enough, ask other people and they might not have the same opinions.
    - mc32 11y ago
      On balance, with the current regimes in those countries, I prefer the western alternative to these regimes. It's not as if they are equivalent just with a different opinion. I truly prefer my western govt's over Russia and China's, no doubts.
      - saiya-jin 11y ago
        sounds like picking-of-lesser-evil discussion to me, which is still a bit sad considering topic... what a world we got ourselves into! :)
        bakhy 11y ago
        The best world yet.
- wmt 11y ago
  That kind of conspiracy is just too fragile to be believable. While the opsec of such coersion operation with a company full of unpatriotic foreigners sounds like an absolute nightmare, it's also much much safer and much easier to build your APT attack vector not be caught by your targets' AV solution. Kaspersky is also much easier to control than most AV vendors, Eugene has often been quite positive about Russia spying on its citizens more aggressively than the US does, and he has deep connections with other powerful people of Russia.
bakabaka9 11y ago
It's spelled Israel, FWIW.

x5n1 11y ago

Kaspersky has been a pain in the ass of the status quo because they are Russian and so it's difficult to control them and rein them in. Lots of exploits depends on the cooperation and complacency of security companies that are in the pocket of the various governments. Kaspersky wasn't one of these, or at least in the pockets of Russia, and so had to be compromised to try to control their oversight on security and to further the chances of exploits succeeding. Good on them for detecting the exploit, now they know that they are valid targets for this sort of thing.

tptacek 11y ago
Who is trying to control and rein in antivirus companies?
- obstinate 11y ago
  The Illuminati. Come on. As a security researcher, you should know this. /s
- x5n1 11y ago
  https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/12/how_antivirus_c.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/12/how_antivirus...
  - wglb 11y ago
    That is, nobody: they claim they have never received a request to not detect malware.
    - anon1385 11y ago
      I think you need to look more closely at the list of companies and their locations in the second paragraph, and the list of companies that actually replied to the letter. But we don't actually have to speculate about what the silence of the american companies means: they are quite open about their policies: http://slashdot.org/story/01/11/28/173201/symantec-will-not-detect-magic-lantern http://slashdot.org/story/01/11/28/173201/symantec-will-not-... >Symantec chief researcher Eric Chien stated that provided a hypothetical keystroke logging tool was used only by the FBI, Symantec would avoid updating its antivirus tools to detect such a Trojan, echoing a similar stance Network Associates allegedly took with its McAfee anti-virus software earlier this week. 'If it was under the control of the FBI, with appropriate technical safeguards in place to prevent possible misuse, and nobody else used it -- we wouldn't detect it,' said Chien. 'However we would detect modified versions that might be used by hackers.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Antivirus companies do not need government coercion not to detect malware. They do a pretty good job of that all by themselves.
mc32 11y ago
I'm sure it knew it was a target for this kind of thing since they did exhibit bias. That is to say they showed greater interest in exposing western gov't hacking capabilities and activities than they did in exposing Russian and Chinese govt actors in the same arena. I'm sure this is no surprise to them.
- x5n1 11y ago
  > than they did in exposing Russian and Chinese govt actors in the same arena. That's the job of Western companies. Keeps everyone honest. Western companies have as much bias as anyone, they are just good at covering it up with rhetoric... and Americans are good at deluding themselves about their own bias and Nationalism which is no different from anyone else's. > On balance, with the current regimes in those countries, I prefer the western alternative to these regimes. It's not as if they are equivalent just with a different opinion. I truly prefer my western govt's over Russia and China's. I do too. However, no one is as clean, just, and fair as they make themselves out to be. Everyone who plays geopolitics is dirty as shit. I like my government because it treats me well enough, ask other people and they might not have the same opinions.
  - mc32 11y ago
    On balance, with the current regimes in those countries, I prefer the western alternative to these regimes. It's not as if they are equivalent just with a different opinion. I truly prefer my western govt's over Russia and China's, no doubts.
    - saiya-jin 11y ago
      sounds like picking-of-lesser-evil discussion to me, which is still a bit sad considering topic... what a world we got ourselves into! :)
      - bakhy 11y ago
        The best world yet.
wmt 11y ago
That kind of conspiracy is just too fragile to be believable. While the opsec of such coersion operation with a company full of unpatriotic foreigners sounds like an absolute nightmare, it's also much much safer and much easier to build your APT attack vector not be caught by your targets' AV solution. Kaspersky is also much easier to control than most AV vendors, Eugene has often been quite positive about Russia spying on its citizens more aggressively than the US does, and he has deep connections with other powerful people of Russia.

bakabaka9 11y ago

It's spelled Israel, FWIW.