16 ms·

These types of interviews work really well for the "I got 1600 on my SATs and went to {insert high profile school here} crowd" There are books out there just to

by kenrikm 11y ago

These types of interviews work really well for the "I got 1600 on my SATs and went to {insert high profile school here} crowd" There are books out there just to prep you for Google interviews I see these as very similar to SAT test prep books. I'm not so sure Google is really interested in hiring the best engineers but rather a specific type of engineer.

r0naa 11y ago
> Google is really interested in hiring the best engineers but rather a specific type of engineer. I think you made an excellent point. It seems that outside a tiny minority of world-class experts, Google is more interested in hiring interchangeable workers.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Hence Go.
  - hn_4_muppets 11y ago
    I thought Go was initially a filler project to keep the new hires going with some busy work, but they were too afraid to tell them, and released it. Hence the missing generics.
  - EugeneOZ 11y ago
    especially funny with another meaning of word "workers "
- philippnagel 11y ago
  That's how big corporations in general work.
thethimble 11y ago
Think of the problem from Google's perspective though. At some point, you have tens of thousands of candidates and you need a system to quantify how good they are. Further, it's reasonable to have false negatives (people you don't hire that should have been hired) but really bad to have false positives (people that you hire that you should not have). Together, these boil down into the de facto whiteboarding interview process.
- aaggarwal 11y ago
  Yes, exactly, since it's Google, they can afford to have strong filters which will definitely filter out a bad hire, may be at the expense of rejecting a good candidate. Their policy might expect good candidate to get absorbed in Google one way or other, but they definitely want to filter a bad hire. However, in the recent years, I have seen this to be not working as expected. Still, I don't think it matters to Google as an big organization.
  - waterlesscloud 11y ago
    "they can afford to have strong filters which will definitely filter out a bad hire, may be at the expense of rejecting a good candidate" Can they, though? Obviously they believe they can, but are they correct? Google's not going away any time soon, but they could easily slip a long way down from the top of the heap. There are signs that's started to happen. I don't think they can be nearly as casual about losing top candidates as they seem to believe. In five or ten years we'll know, I suppose.
    - aaggarwal 11y ago
      In the long run, this could affect Google, but, then again, if they change their hiring policies for better even after long 5 years, the best talent that might had been rejected before would still go to work at Google. So, still I don't think Google really consider it as an issue for them. Though, I have been burned once myself by them.
      - loopbit 11y ago
        I don't consider myself "top talent", so I won't comment on my own experience through the interview process. But I do know that I don't want to work for google. Hell, I'm happier doing my own thing. I also know a few "top talent" engineers that rejected the google offer because they didn't like the process and the people they met. I know even more ex-Googlers that quit within the year of starting there. It's not an issue for them? From where I'm looking, most of the experienced top talent (that it's not working at google already) is keeping away from it, in greener pastures and most won't look back. Yep, google is not going anywhere anytime soon, but I'd be just a bit concerned if I were them.
seiji 11y ago
People have previously mentioned hallway discussions at Google routinely devolve into bragging about SAT scores and GPAs. Nothing says Google must accept sub-par technical people, but Google fails to realize you don't have to be the top 0.0001% in absolute algorithms intelligence to do great work. Google's basic theme seems to be "you must be low latency ultra smart in our narrow interest areas" to pass an interview (or well-connected in other ways to lower scrutiny), but Google's main problem these days isn't lack of smart people — it's lack of projects with meaning and lack of how to organize smart people into anything resembling a coherent world-moving force. In The Plex is great read for insight into their entire process. Basically, Google is run by people who have never been told "no" to anything in their lives, so they continue to think they are the best at everything until reality forces them to reconsider their delusional assumptions ("montessori naivety").
- endtime 11y ago
  > People have previously mentioned hallway discussions at Google routinely devolve into bragging about SAT scores and GPAs. I've been at Google for 3.5 years (in the NY office) and have never heard this. I don't think I've ever even seen anyone wear a college t-shirt/sweater.
  - seiji 11y ago
    It's probably a pathological case centered around the mountain view office: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5534904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5534904 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473308
    - skybrian 11y ago
      I've never seen it in MTV either. But it's a big campus, so who knows?
    - magicalist 11y ago
      From that second link: > These aren't Googlers I'm talking about, except the boyfriend.... remember that most of these conversations happened when I was actually in college (a few even before then, while applying to schools), and I just have a really long memory Sounds like someone who's just into remembering people's SAT scores?
IndianAstronaut 11y ago
I aced some data analyst interviews fresh out of grad school. A lot of the questions were excel and probability questions, which I used to teach. Now, I have more experience and knowledge, but I would be much slower in those interviews.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
csthrow42 11y ago
Not just books. There are even courses: http://Interviewkickstart.com http://Interviewkickstart.com.
erichmond 11y ago
Exactly. I see it as a tacit admission that you are effectively a cog in a wheel if those are the kinds of questions they are asking. I know some people get frustrated by those kinds of questions, but I'd just see it as a reverse weeding out process. If you still want to work at (insert company here), just build something valuable and have them acquire you. At that point they'll acqui-hire you and you'll leap frog all the people who got in because they had Knuth books memorized.
ArekDymalski 11y ago
>not so sure Google is really interested in hiring the best engineers but rather a specific type of engineer. Any mature company should focus on finding those specific candidates - the ones who fit the company and specific team, on several dimensions beyond standard skillsrequired for the job. That's someone who will be called the best candidate in that specific company. And it's absolutely natural that s/he won't be considered "best" insome other company.
natmaster 11y ago
Really? Being able to solve basic CS101 problems requires some sort of privileged upbringing? I grew up poor - my family lived off food stamps for a while. This stuff is easy. I find it disgusting the level of entitlement swept throughout this thread. Oh Google HAD to give you that job, it was yours and they stole it by testing basic skills. You know, there is something to be said for someone who has a good product sense, but not good developer skills. They sound very valuable, so why are they applying to a developer position? Just because you are unqualified for one job, doesn't mean you deserved that job, or that you're worthless. Go do what you're good at.
- natmaster 11y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr638pCfPxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr638pCfPxs
fenomas 11y ago
I suspect the issue is that programmers right out of college are strong on testable skills (like how to do X to a linked list) and weak on experience-based skills that are harder to test (like how to keep projects under budget or how to manage technical debt). Whereas veterans naturally tend to be the opposite. And hiring processes naturally tend towards what's easier to test. As such, the best approach to these interviews might be to say, "Look, I could take a stab at that algo question, but I haven't touched that stuff since school, and if I needed it I'd google it. It might be more productive if we talked about what I've been doing day-to-day for the last ten years to ship successful products, because that's the main value I can bring to your company."

by kenrikm 11y ago

r0naa 11y ago

> Google is really interested in hiring the best engineers but rather a specific type of engineer. I think you made an excellent point. It seems that outside a tiny minority of world-class experts, Google is more interested in hiring interchangeable workers.

pjmlp 11y ago
Hence Go.
- hn_4_muppets 11y ago
  I thought Go was initially a filler project to keep the new hires going with some busy work, but they were too afraid to tell them, and released it. Hence the missing generics.
- EugeneOZ 11y ago
  especially funny with another meaning of word "workers "
philippnagel 11y ago
That's how big corporations in general work.

thethimble 11y ago

Think of the problem from Google's perspective though. At some point, you have tens of thousands of candidates and you need a system to quantify how good they are. Further, it's reasonable to have false negatives (people you don't hire that should have been hired) but really bad to have false positives (people that you hire that you should not have). Together, these boil down into the de facto whiteboarding interview process.

aaggarwal 11y ago
Yes, exactly, since it's Google, they can afford to have strong filters which will definitely filter out a bad hire, may be at the expense of rejecting a good candidate. Their policy might expect good candidate to get absorbed in Google one way or other, but they definitely want to filter a bad hire. However, in the recent years, I have seen this to be not working as expected. Still, I don't think it matters to Google as an big organization.
- waterlesscloud 11y ago
  "they can afford to have strong filters which will definitely filter out a bad hire, may be at the expense of rejecting a good candidate" Can they, though? Obviously they believe they can, but are they correct? Google's not going away any time soon, but they could easily slip a long way down from the top of the heap. There are signs that's started to happen. I don't think they can be nearly as casual about losing top candidates as they seem to believe. In five or ten years we'll know, I suppose.
  - aaggarwal 11y ago
    In the long run, this could affect Google, but, then again, if they change their hiring policies for better even after long 5 years, the best talent that might had been rejected before would still go to work at Google. So, still I don't think Google really consider it as an issue for them. Though, I have been burned once myself by them.
    - loopbit 11y ago
      I don't consider myself "top talent", so I won't comment on my own experience through the interview process. But I do know that I don't want to work for google. Hell, I'm happier doing my own thing. I also know a few "top talent" engineers that rejected the google offer because they didn't like the process and the people they met. I know even more ex-Googlers that quit within the year of starting there. It's not an issue for them? From where I'm looking, most of the experienced top talent (that it's not working at google already) is keeping away from it, in greener pastures and most won't look back. Yep, google is not going anywhere anytime soon, but I'd be just a bit concerned if I were them.

seiji 11y ago

People have previously mentioned hallway discussions at Google routinely devolve into bragging about SAT scores and GPAs. Nothing says Google must accept sub-par technical people, but Google fails to realize you don't have to be the top 0.0001% in absolute algorithms intelligence to do great work. Google's basic theme seems to be "you must be low latency ultra smart in our narrow interest areas" to pass an interview (or well-connected in other ways to lower scrutiny), but Google's main problem these days isn't lack of smart people — it's lack of projects with meaning and lack of how to organize smart people into anything resembling a coherent world-moving force. In The Plex is great read for insight into their entire process. Basically, Google is run by people who have never been told "no" to anything in their lives, so they continue to think they are the best at everything until reality forces them to reconsider their delusional assumptions ("montessori naivety").

endtime 11y ago
> People have previously mentioned hallway discussions at Google routinely devolve into bragging about SAT scores and GPAs. I've been at Google for 3.5 years (in the NY office) and have never heard this. I don't think I've ever even seen anyone wear a college t-shirt/sweater.
- seiji 11y ago
  It's probably a pathological case centered around the mountain view office: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5534904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5534904 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473308
  - skybrian 11y ago
    I've never seen it in MTV either. But it's a big campus, so who knows?
  - magicalist 11y ago
    From that second link: > These aren't Googlers I'm talking about, except the boyfriend.... remember that most of these conversations happened when I was actually in college (a few even before then, while applying to schools), and I just have a really long memory Sounds like someone who's just into remembering people's SAT scores?

IndianAstronaut 11y ago

I aced some data analyst interviews fresh out of grad school. A lot of the questions were excel and probability questions, which I used to teach. Now, I have more experience and knowledge, but I would be much slower in those interviews.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

csthrow42 11y ago

Not just books. There are even courses: http://Interviewkickstart.com http://Interviewkickstart.com.

erichmond 11y ago

Exactly. I see it as a tacit admission that you are effectively a cog in a wheel if those are the kinds of questions they are asking. I know some people get frustrated by those kinds of questions, but I'd just see it as a reverse weeding out process. If you still want to work at (insert company here), just build something valuable and have them acquire you. At that point they'll acqui-hire you and you'll leap frog all the people who got in because they had Knuth books memorized.

ArekDymalski 11y ago

>not so sure Google is really interested in hiring the best engineers but rather a specific type of engineer. Any mature company should focus on finding those specific candidates - the ones who fit the company and specific team, on several dimensions beyond standard skillsrequired for the job. That's someone who will be called the best candidate in that specific company. And it's absolutely natural that s/he won't be considered "best" insome other company.

natmaster 11y ago

Really? Being able to solve basic CS101 problems requires some sort of privileged upbringing? I grew up poor - my family lived off food stamps for a while. This stuff is easy. I find it disgusting the level of entitlement swept throughout this thread. Oh Google HAD to give you that job, it was yours and they stole it by testing basic skills. You know, there is something to be said for someone who has a good product sense, but not good developer skills. They sound very valuable, so why are they applying to a developer position? Just because you are unqualified for one job, doesn't mean you deserved that job, or that you're worthless. Go do what you're good at.

natmaster 11y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr638pCfPxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr638pCfPxs

fenomas 11y ago

I suspect the issue is that programmers right out of college are strong on testable skills (like how to do X to a linked list) and weak on experience-based skills that are harder to test (like how to keep projects under budget or how to manage technical debt). Whereas veterans naturally tend to be the opposite. And hiring processes naturally tend towards what's easier to test. As such, the best approach to these interviews might be to say, "Look, I could take a stab at that algo question, but I haven't touched that stuff since school, and if I needed it I'd google it. It might be more productive if we talked about what I've been doing day-to-day for the last ten years to ship successful products, because that's the main value I can bring to your company."