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I feel like Zenefits is becoming a case study in everything you don't do when you enter an industry. We'll be switching away because I'm worried who else they w

I feel like Zenefits is becoming a case study in everything you don't do when you enter an industry. We'll be switching away because I'm worried who else they won't play nice with in the future. Uber and AirBNB have scared the heck out of huge incumbent industries and cities/governments and had scraps to be sure. But they don't have the consistent missteps as Zenefits. They know when to fight and when to take a lump or two, stay quiet, and bide their time.

bttf 11y ago
What are some of the other missteps Zenefits has made in the past (for the uninformed)?
- rubiquity 11y ago
  I remember the Zenefits founder rescinded a job offer to someone that asked on Quora whether they should accept the offer from Zenefits or some other company.
  - wcummings 11y ago
    I guess that answered his question, huh?
  - josefresco 11y ago
    To be fair, the applicant "slammed" Zenefits by saying that having their name on his resume would be less valuable than others when applying FOR A NEW JOB (my emphasis). If an employee applied to work for my business and one of their "concerns" was how our company would appear on their resume (in contrast to another), I would similarly discard their application.
    - dworin 11y ago
      I disagree. I'm not promising someone a job for life and they're not promising to work for me forever. Part of the value I offer them as an employee is what I can do for their career going forward. Sometimes that's a prestigious name, other times it's by giving them better opportunities to grow. It's one thing to say "I want people who want to work here," it's another to discount people who might want one day want to work someplace else.
      - josefresco 11y ago
        Of course nothing lasts forever, however it's somewhat a bad sign to a see an employee actively planning their next move, before they've even accepted an offer. It shows the applicant may be more concerned about career path than they are in doing an excellent job for their current employer. It might be an outdated or romantic view of work, but the ideal situation (employes and ownership working towards a shared goal) is still worth striving for.
    - CPLX 11y ago
      Fine, then don't hire him. The mistake wasn't the hiring decision, clearly it was getting into an argument with a prospective employee in a public internet posting. That shows a serious lack of judgement and poor leadership. And moreover this isn't a photo sharing business he's running, when you're asking people to trust you with their income and their medical coverage you are going to be held to a higher standard.
      - josefresco 11y ago
        What if the argument took place privately? Is the mistake the venue, the participation or the action/argument itself? The applicant invited a public debate - should the CEO just avoid the debate and let it play out?
        CPLX 11y ago
        > should the CEO just avoid the debate and let it play out? Yes. Getting into acrimonious debate with a prospective junior hire about their future career prospects is almost the definition of a misplaced sense of priority.
        josefresco 11y ago
        I am leaning to agreeing with you, however (in the spirit of debate) there are many examples of successful CEO's who meddle in seemingly unimportant matters due to their personal obsession/work ethic etc. It's a not a good sign when your CEO argues with a "junior hire", however if he's successful at growing the company and creating value, it will be painted as part of his winning formula.
    - kzhahou 11y ago
      If a potential employee was concerned about name recognition with my startup, and I REALLY wanted her join, I'd double down on my pitch of how we're all passionate about making a huge (name-brand-worthy) contribution to the world, and her help will make a difference.
    - namenotrequired 11y ago
      Really? Whenever I discuss my career with my employer (a startup much smaller than Zenefits), they're always the first to bring up potential future employers.
aaggarwal 11y ago
I agree. Zenefits had been in the news for last few months, but all for the wrong reasons, first the Quora fiasco and now this.
protomyth 11y ago
Also Über and AirBNB are consumer companies. Zenefits has to appeal to enterprise customers. Beyond that we're talking payroll. This is the most conservative part of any business. Lawsuits do not make for good advertising.
- jusben1369 11y ago
  Great point.
- notahacker 11y ago
  Plus use of Uber and AirBnB is transactional (at worst, I might have to dispute a downpayment or arrange alternative accommodation at short notice if my AirBnB hotelier has trouble) I'm far more locked into the consequences of the bad decision if I go with the sketchy SaaS provider and employee benefits broker
  - protomyth 11y ago
    Your right, there is no fun on this earth like a failed accounting system change. Ask anyone who has participated in a SAP deployment that has gone wrong.
sjm-lbm 11y ago
I'm honestly wondering if half the point of this lawsuit is just to keep Zenefits' professionalism and Parker Conrad's mouth in the news as much as possible. ADP might lose this lawsuit (I have no idea), but Zenefits is already looking much less impressive.
efuquen 11y ago
> Uber and AirBNB have scared the heck out of huge incumbent industries and cities/governments and had scraps to be sure. But they don't have the consistent missteps as Zenefits. I feel like AirBnB, and even more so Uber, have had plenty of very public missteps. Both Uber's CEO and execs have come under fire for some dumb things they've said: http://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-most-awful-things-travis-kalanick-said-in-his-gq-profile/ http://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-mo... http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-digging-up-dirt-on-journalists#.pceQPDedl http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-dig... That clearly doesn't mean you can't be successful, but I wouldn't say Zenefits has done or said anything worse than these other companies have.
- dylanjermiah 11y ago
  On the topic of that first link, the 'boob-er' story was most likely fabricated. There is no evidence of an interview nor a transcript.
pbreit 11y ago
It's a shame that it does seem like jerky behavior is at least correlative, if not causative, to success.

bttf 11y ago

What are some of the other missteps Zenefits has made in the past (for the uninformed)?

rubiquity 11y ago
I remember the Zenefits founder rescinded a job offer to someone that asked on Quora whether they should accept the offer from Zenefits or some other company.
- wcummings 11y ago
  I guess that answered his question, huh?
- josefresco 11y ago
  To be fair, the applicant "slammed" Zenefits by saying that having their name on his resume would be less valuable than others when applying FOR A NEW JOB (my emphasis). If an employee applied to work for my business and one of their "concerns" was how our company would appear on their resume (in contrast to another), I would similarly discard their application.
  - dworin 11y ago
    I disagree. I'm not promising someone a job for life and they're not promising to work for me forever. Part of the value I offer them as an employee is what I can do for their career going forward. Sometimes that's a prestigious name, other times it's by giving them better opportunities to grow. It's one thing to say "I want people who want to work here," it's another to discount people who might want one day want to work someplace else.
    - josefresco 11y ago
      Of course nothing lasts forever, however it's somewhat a bad sign to a see an employee actively planning their next move, before they've even accepted an offer. It shows the applicant may be more concerned about career path than they are in doing an excellent job for their current employer. It might be an outdated or romantic view of work, but the ideal situation (employes and ownership working towards a shared goal) is still worth striving for.
  - CPLX 11y ago
    Fine, then don't hire him. The mistake wasn't the hiring decision, clearly it was getting into an argument with a prospective employee in a public internet posting. That shows a serious lack of judgement and poor leadership. And moreover this isn't a photo sharing business he's running, when you're asking people to trust you with their income and their medical coverage you are going to be held to a higher standard.
    - josefresco 11y ago
      What if the argument took place privately? Is the mistake the venue, the participation or the action/argument itself? The applicant invited a public debate - should the CEO just avoid the debate and let it play out?
      - CPLX 11y ago
        > should the CEO just avoid the debate and let it play out? Yes. Getting into acrimonious debate with a prospective junior hire about their future career prospects is almost the definition of a misplaced sense of priority.
        josefresco 11y ago
        I am leaning to agreeing with you, however (in the spirit of debate) there are many examples of successful CEO's who meddle in seemingly unimportant matters due to their personal obsession/work ethic etc. It's a not a good sign when your CEO argues with a "junior hire", however if he's successful at growing the company and creating value, it will be painted as part of his winning formula.
  - kzhahou 11y ago
    If a potential employee was concerned about name recognition with my startup, and I REALLY wanted her join, I'd double down on my pitch of how we're all passionate about making a huge (name-brand-worthy) contribution to the world, and her help will make a difference.
  - namenotrequired 11y ago
    Really? Whenever I discuss my career with my employer (a startup much smaller than Zenefits), they're always the first to bring up potential future employers.

aaggarwal 11y ago

I agree. Zenefits had been in the news for last few months, but all for the wrong reasons, first the Quora fiasco and now this.

protomyth 11y ago

Also Über and AirBNB are consumer companies. Zenefits has to appeal to enterprise customers. Beyond that we're talking payroll. This is the most conservative part of any business. Lawsuits do not make for good advertising.

jusben1369 11y ago
Great point.
notahacker 11y ago
Plus use of Uber and AirBnB is transactional (at worst, I might have to dispute a downpayment or arrange alternative accommodation at short notice if my AirBnB hotelier has trouble) I'm far more locked into the consequences of the bad decision if I go with the sketchy SaaS provider and employee benefits broker
- protomyth 11y ago
  Your right, there is no fun on this earth like a failed accounting system change. Ask anyone who has participated in a SAP deployment that has gone wrong.

sjm-lbm 11y ago

I'm honestly wondering if half the point of this lawsuit is just to keep Zenefits' professionalism and Parker Conrad's mouth in the news as much as possible. ADP might lose this lawsuit (I have no idea), but Zenefits is already looking much less impressive.

efuquen 11y ago

> Uber and AirBNB have scared the heck out of huge incumbent industries and cities/governments and had scraps to be sure. But they don't have the consistent missteps as Zenefits. I feel like AirBnB, and even more so Uber, have had plenty of very public missteps. Both Uber's CEO and execs have come under fire for some dumb things they've said: http://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-most-awful-things-travis-kalanick-said-in-his-gq-profile/ http://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-mo... http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-digging-up-dirt-on-journalists#.pceQPDedl http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-dig... That clearly doesn't mean you can't be successful, but I wouldn't say Zenefits has done or said anything worse than these other companies have.

dylanjermiah 11y ago
On the topic of that first link, the 'boob-er' story was most likely fabricated. There is no evidence of an interview nor a transcript.

pbreit 11y ago

It's a shame that it does seem like jerky behavior is at least correlative, if not causative, to success.