6 ms·

Boy oh boy, that really puts a different spin on this post, doesn't it. I wish I had the cash to throw this kind of tantrum.

sosuke 11y ago
That's what it looks like from the outside doesn't it? His pain is real certainly, and like all experience relative to his situation. When you look at it from a perspective of responsibility without an option to stop working, or the fear of not finding work with which you can fulfill your responsibilities his position is a lot tougher to identify with. I hope I can work hard enough to someday be able to have the luxury of that choice and that I'll remember my current perspective at that time.
- cafebeen 11y ago
  Reminds of the idea of the hedonic treadmill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
nostrademons 11y ago
So go get it. A number of growth businesses - Uber, AirBnB, Stripe, Lyft, Zenefits, Slack - are hiring aggressively. Join one of them and in 4-5 years of slaving away at the computer you'll probably have the cash (and desire) to throw this kind of tantrum.
- ryandrake 11y ago
  Too late. Each of your example companies are beyond the point where becoming the next employee has a high likelihood of returning a windfall in 4 years. Life-changing equity tends to go to early (single digit) employees.
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    "Pay off the mortgage" equity, however, continues long after that. Yelp started in 2004, I really doubt that Eevee was a single-digit employee there. I know folks who started at Google as employee ~20,000 in 2008-2009 and ended up with "pay off the mortgage" equity, particularly if you're living in Las Vegas instead of Silicon Valley.
    - ryandrake 11y ago
      Agreed there's a big difference between "Pay off the $100K Las Vegas McMansion" equity and "Pay off the $1M Palo Alto starter home" equity. My guess is that the former is do-able if you find the right company (who will also let you work from your cheaper remote location). For the latter, I still don't believe you're going to see that without a gamble on a very early stage company. And, since this is HN, of course I always need to preface with "Yes, I know you can point to a handful of outlier counter-examples, but they don't disprove the general case".
  - kelnos 11y ago
    If you're a fairly experienced developer or manager, you can join a company 18 months or so prior to an IPO and make out like a bandit. There's still plenty of money to be made by joining most of the companies the grandparent mentions. Single-digit employees more often than not get screwed when considering the greater risk they take (risk not too much lower than the founders, who usually keep several tens of percent ownership). 1% of a company post-seed dilutes a lot after a few VC rounds, so you end up with a great strike price, but not much more %-wise (what really matters) compared to later hires. Also I think you (as many do, and as I used to) vastly overestimate what retirement money is. In general you can take your yearly expenses (not income), multiply that by around 25, and that's all you really need to retire on, and keep the same lifestyle. (Sure, if you want to increase the cost of your lifestyle, add a couple kids, etc., you need to take that into account.)

sosuke 11y ago

That's what it looks like from the outside doesn't it? His pain is real certainly, and like all experience relative to his situation. When you look at it from a perspective of responsibility without an option to stop working, or the fear of not finding work with which you can fulfill your responsibilities his position is a lot tougher to identify with. I hope I can work hard enough to someday be able to have the luxury of that choice and that I'll remember my current perspective at that time.

cafebeen 11y ago
Reminds of the idea of the hedonic treadmill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

nostrademons 11y ago

So go get it. A number of growth businesses - Uber, AirBnB, Stripe, Lyft, Zenefits, Slack - are hiring aggressively. Join one of them and in 4-5 years of slaving away at the computer you'll probably have the cash (and desire) to throw this kind of tantrum.

ryandrake 11y ago
Too late. Each of your example companies are beyond the point where becoming the next employee has a high likelihood of returning a windfall in 4 years. Life-changing equity tends to go to early (single digit) employees.
- nostrademons 11y ago
  "Pay off the mortgage" equity, however, continues long after that. Yelp started in 2004, I really doubt that Eevee was a single-digit employee there. I know folks who started at Google as employee ~20,000 in 2008-2009 and ended up with "pay off the mortgage" equity, particularly if you're living in Las Vegas instead of Silicon Valley.
  - ryandrake 11y ago
    Agreed there's a big difference between "Pay off the $100K Las Vegas McMansion" equity and "Pay off the $1M Palo Alto starter home" equity. My guess is that the former is do-able if you find the right company (who will also let you work from your cheaper remote location). For the latter, I still don't believe you're going to see that without a gamble on a very early stage company. And, since this is HN, of course I always need to preface with "Yes, I know you can point to a handful of outlier counter-examples, but they don't disprove the general case".
- kelnos 11y ago
  If you're a fairly experienced developer or manager, you can join a company 18 months or so prior to an IPO and make out like a bandit. There's still plenty of money to be made by joining most of the companies the grandparent mentions. Single-digit employees more often than not get screwed when considering the greater risk they take (risk not too much lower than the founders, who usually keep several tens of percent ownership). 1% of a company post-seed dilutes a lot after a few VC rounds, so you end up with a great strike price, but not much more %-wise (what really matters) compared to later hires. Also I think you (as many do, and as I used to) vastly overestimate what retirement money is. In general you can take your yearly expenses (not income), multiply that by around 25, and that's all you really need to retire on, and keep the same lifestyle. (Sure, if you want to increase the cost of your lifestyle, add a couple kids, etc., you need to take that into account.)