3 ms·

> We're not meant to do jobs, this is just some modern made up concept to keep people busy And > We would be in a world where only work is done that is needed

by xienze 11y ago

> We're not meant to do jobs, this is just some modern made up concept to keep people busy And > We would be in a world where only work is done that is needed Contradict each other. Of course no one WANTS to work but there are things that HAVE to be done. Like farming, hunting, building shelter. Chopping firewood to keep warm in the winter. You know, modern, made up problems like that. > We would live in a world where everybody has the time and freedom to pursue their own dreams, without having to be afraid they will get in trouble later (because no pension built up etc). There is very little time to pursue anything other than survival in a subsistence existence. And you better hope you have children to take care of you when you're physically unable to complete the work. The fact that people have any time at all to dedicate to non-survival-related pursuits should tell you how important all that work that we're not "meant" to do is in the broader scheme of things.

mvanvoorden 11y ago
>Contradict each other. Of course no one WANTS to work but there are things that HAVE to be done. Like farming, hunting, building shelter. Chopping firewood to keep warm in the winter. You know, modern, made up problems like that. But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day, especially if it can be distributed over many more people. Anyway, how does it contradict? With jobs I mean modern (office) jobs, and I'm clearly saying in the other sentences that it's about _needed_ work. How is there no time to pursue anything? When I was travelling and not working at all for two years, my quest for survival meant that I had to get food and water and had to keep my shelter clean and working. I 'worked' like 4 hours a week on this. There is a lot of time to pursue, like helping other people out, learning to play an instrument, making art, building things. If there is any hard physical work to do, we have machines for this, and otherwise always other people around who can help. All the work we are not meant to do is any work that doesn't produce anything for our survival. That is everything money-related, everything entertainment-related, and everything that is done redundantly because of patents/copyright. So collectively we would have ALL the time, not less, and then surviving is just peanuts in that case.
- xienze 11y ago
  > But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day Minimal, LOL. What world do you live in? I suggest you pay a visit to Amish country some day and see how people unencumbered with "made up problems" live. Farming and other survival-related tasks are literally ALL they do. And it's all you would ever do without people sitting in offices and factories tending to "made up problems" in order to make your life simpler. > How is there no time to pursue anything? When I was travelling and not working at all for two years, my quest for survival meant that I had to get food and water Were you hunting and farming or scraping together a couple bucks so you could head down to a store or restaurant to get food? You would not be able to do that without an army of people in farms, factories, and offices making the whole thing work. > If there is any hard physical work to do, we have machines for this Who builds the machines? A bunch of people tending to "made up problems" in offices and factories. It's very tempting to think you've unlocked the meaning of life after slumming through Europe for a year and a half but you're totally ignoring the fact that there are numerous people working on "made up problems" in tech, agriculture, and manufacturing making it possible for you to do that. You absolutely do not want to revert to an agrarian lifestyle. It's not fun. Realize that some of these "made up problems" in the first world help you actually live a better life than a life of subsistence would.
  - skidoo 11y ago
    No offense, but I disagree with pretty much all of this. We work more than our ancestors do, not to make an easier life, but for the sake of incorporating the ephemeral and inconsequential into our lives. And an agrarian lifestyle can be loads of fun, actually. I got more of a sense of accomplishment helping on my grandparents' farm than from any blue collar job I've ever held.
    - xienze 11y ago
      Yes the work can be rewarding but I'm really addressing the author's misguided point that all our modern work is to solve non-existent problems. In reality, it's to make our lives easier and more comfortable. The flipside of a completely agrarian society is very little safety net. Crop disease? Drought? Animal sickness? Broke your leg? Life just got a lot tougher. Like, life or death tougher.

by xienze 11y ago

mvanvoorden 11y ago

>Contradict each other. Of course no one WANTS to work but there are things that HAVE to be done. Like farming, hunting, building shelter. Chopping firewood to keep warm in the winter. You know, modern, made up problems like that. But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day, especially if it can be distributed over many more people. Anyway, how does it contradict? With jobs I mean modern (office) jobs, and I'm clearly saying in the other sentences that it's about _needed_ work. How is there no time to pursue anything? When I was travelling and not working at all for two years, my quest for survival meant that I had to get food and water and had to keep my shelter clean and working. I 'worked' like 4 hours a week on this. There is a lot of time to pursue, like helping other people out, learning to play an instrument, making art, building things. If there is any hard physical work to do, we have machines for this, and otherwise always other people around who can help. All the work we are not meant to do is any work that doesn't produce anything for our survival. That is everything money-related, everything entertainment-related, and everything that is done redundantly because of patents/copyright. So collectively we would have ALL the time, not less, and then surviving is just peanuts in that case.

xienze 11y ago
> But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day Minimal, LOL. What world do you live in? I suggest you pay a visit to Amish country some day and see how people unencumbered with "made up problems" live. Farming and other survival-related tasks are literally ALL they do. And it's all you would ever do without people sitting in offices and factories tending to "made up problems" in order to make your life simpler. > How is there no time to pursue anything? When I was travelling and not working at all for two years, my quest for survival meant that I had to get food and water Were you hunting and farming or scraping together a couple bucks so you could head down to a store or restaurant to get food? You would not be able to do that without an army of people in farms, factories, and offices making the whole thing work. > If there is any hard physical work to do, we have machines for this Who builds the machines? A bunch of people tending to "made up problems" in offices and factories. It's very tempting to think you've unlocked the meaning of life after slumming through Europe for a year and a half but you're totally ignoring the fact that there are numerous people working on "made up problems" in tech, agriculture, and manufacturing making it possible for you to do that. You absolutely do not want to revert to an agrarian lifestyle. It's not fun. Realize that some of these "made up problems" in the first world help you actually live a better life than a life of subsistence would.
- skidoo 11y ago
  No offense, but I disagree with pretty much all of this. We work more than our ancestors do, not to make an easier life, but for the sake of incorporating the ephemeral and inconsequential into our lives. And an agrarian lifestyle can be loads of fun, actually. I got more of a sense of accomplishment helping on my grandparents' farm than from any blue collar job I've ever held.
  - xienze 11y ago
    Yes the work can be rewarding but I'm really addressing the author's misguided point that all our modern work is to solve non-existent problems. In reality, it's to make our lives easier and more comfortable. The flipside of a completely agrarian society is very little safety net. Crop disease? Drought? Animal sickness? Broke your leg? Life just got a lot tougher. Like, life or death tougher.