4 ms·

Airlines absolutely created this problem themselves. Aircrafts are designed to carry large bags in the hold, and small bags in the cabin. But airlines decided

Airlines absolutely created this problem themselves. Aircrafts are designed to carry large bags in the hold, and small bags in the cabin. But airlines decided to actively discourage people from checking bags with ever more insane checked bag fees (e.g. $25 on a $100 ticket!) and even worse if you try to take a bag that is clearly too big onboard, they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check. Honestly the entire system seems silly to me.

josefresco 11y ago
I'm no expert, but didn't the concept of packing everything into your carry on develop because of the fear (rational or not) that your bag would be lost if checked? The exorbitant bag checks fees seem to have arisen in the last 5-10 years seemingly as a result of the 2008 economic crisis and overall crappy business model (cheap fares etc.)
- bbgm 11y ago
  I think it's a bit of both. I stopped checking bags in because of all the hassles - delays, lost bags, etc. This was well before airlines started charging for checked bags, and I know many others (mostly frequent travelers) in the same boat. It's not a lot of fun showing up in London without your luggage when you have a meeting in Cambridge the next morning. Less frequent travelers I know stopped checking luggage in after the airlines started charging.
- brixon 11y ago
  Business travelers have done this for years since their stays are so short and a checked bag that misses the flight is a big issue.
- mapt 11y ago
  Nuh-uh. This is your fault, Internet. Bag fees came along when booking websites cut fares to the bone, but neglected to factor in bag fees. Edit: This is also plausible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867
  - eli 11y ago
    Not sure the messenger is to blame. Customers wants the cheapest possible base fare and booking websites gave them what they wanted.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      Customer wants the cheapest total price, not base fare; internet provider base fare comparisons, which are presented and perceived to represent cost comparisons, airlines game the system so that they can minimize what people are able to easily compare on while maximizing revenue.
- zzalpha 11y ago
  That's sure why I don't check. After they permanently lost thousands of dollars of clothes for me, I stopped checking. Add in the dangers of flight cancelations (sorry your bag is on this plane and we can't get it until tomorrow), the time spent waiting at the belt to pick up on the other side, the chance of damage, and the fees, and nope, I never check and never will when I can avoid it.
- bradleyland 11y ago
  Certainly a portion of carry-on travelers do so because of the reasons you listed, but the rise of checked baggage fees unquestionably made matters worse. I've been traveling for business since around 1999. Not a terribly long time, but long enough that I remember the days of simple metal detectors at security checkpoints and family greeting me at the gate when I landed. Overhead space was rarely a concern except for commuter-heavy routes. These days, I rarely get on a flight where some passengers have to gate check. The "overhead bin space is going to be tight" announcement has become a standard part of many flight attendant's duties.
megablast 11y ago
Having a reputation for losing bags, and also the fact that it takes longer to get your bag from the hold doesn't help either.
privong 11y ago
> with ever more insane checked bag fees (e.g. $25 on a $100 ticket!) You probably know this, but to be fair, this is because they need to make a certain amount to have a viable busines, and an easy way to do that is to reduce ticket prices while increasing fees for other services. In the absence of checked bag fees (and assuming all else is equal) that hypothetical $100 ticket probably would have been closer to $125. But there is clearly a psychological difference. > if you try to take a bag that is clearly too big onboard, they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check. Yea that is a bit unfair. But it likely stems from the fact that airlines often end up gate-checking bags, once the overhead bins are full. If they enforced the bag check fees at the gate and had to measure every bag to decide if it should be free or charged, flights would be delayed and passengers would be (even more) unhappy.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  In Toronto, Air Canada is now size checking and tagging carry-ons at the check-in counter. That prevents delays from doing it at the gate.
  - privong 11y ago
    I have seen similar things in Chile as well. But not yet in the US.
gambiting 11y ago
" they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check." Who does this?? Try bringing a bag slightly too big or too heavy to the gate with Ryanair, EasyJet, Jet2.com, GermanWings or WizzAir - you will pay 5x as much as it would have cost to have it checked in normally. Is it a US-only thing?
- zzalpha 11y ago
  They do it because when the bins fill you are forced to gate check and people would be pissed if you charged them just because they were in a late boarding group.
jkyle 11y ago
Huh. Every flight I've been on (United, American, etc) have these little bins by boarding they can drop your bag in real quick to see if it'll fit the overhead. If not, they certainly don't wave the fee. . . damned protruding wheels.
VLM 11y ago
Also please consider competition for cargo space. I've "next day air" shipped things to avoid checking bags because, hey, why bother with the hassle? And for non-international stuff I don't need soon (dirty socks?) I've ground shipped at the very cheapest rates. I've walked on to planes and trains with little more than a tiny bag for camera and tickets and phone and such a couple times. Its a nice way to travel. Not as nice as paying for 1st class, but not as expensive, shipping is well worth the money. The problem is that cheaper air shipping means it may very well be in the same plane I'm flying on, insane as that sounds. Then multiple middlemen all trying to get their cut, etc. Shipping is infinitely more reliable than airline baggage, which is weird to me. The difference in loss rates is like 100 to 1. Everyone knows someone who ended up with missing baggage if not themselves, but its incredibly rare to lose a tracked postal package. I really don't understand this beyond maybe baggage handlers are more likely to be thieves than USPS mailmen.
- hfsktr 11y ago
  The first thing that came to mind was that it's an offense to open mail but really it seems like it's just stealing either way so that's probably not the big deterrent. Maybe there are more restrictions/logging that prevents mail from getting lost. I would find that a bit weird (that USPS would be more secure) but I somehow doubt it's because postal workers are just more honorable.
twoodfin 11y ago
...even worse if you try to take a bag that is clearly too big onboard, they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check. What annoys me is the airlines that have responded to this problem by posting "minders" outside the security gates. These folks are usually positioned to maximally embarrass and psychologically pressure (there are people behind you waiting!) anyone foolish enough to try to prove their bag actually does fit, even in the absurdly small "tester" frame. And whatever you think of the TSA, I don't like airlines piggy-backing on the nominally important security process. It's dishonest "authority by association"—the TSA couldn't care less about a few extra combined inches in your luggage—and promotes degrading the screening process into general purpose policy enforcement.
- Bluestrike2 11y ago
  To be fair, the TSA security process has always been little more than general purpose policy enforcement in the pursuit of "security theater." When you have 95% failure rates for DHS penetration tests [1], it's tough to argue that the security provided is anything other than illusory. In that sort of environment, why not chastise flyers over the size of their bags? They're already being chastised over everything else. [1] http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-tsa-screeners-20150602-story.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-tsa-screeners-...

josefresco 11y ago

I'm no expert, but didn't the concept of packing everything into your carry on develop because of the fear (rational or not) that your bag would be lost if checked? The exorbitant bag checks fees seem to have arisen in the last 5-10 years seemingly as a result of the 2008 economic crisis and overall crappy business model (cheap fares etc.)

bbgm 11y ago
I think it's a bit of both. I stopped checking bags in because of all the hassles - delays, lost bags, etc. This was well before airlines started charging for checked bags, and I know many others (mostly frequent travelers) in the same boat. It's not a lot of fun showing up in London without your luggage when you have a meeting in Cambridge the next morning. Less frequent travelers I know stopped checking luggage in after the airlines started charging.
brixon 11y ago
Business travelers have done this for years since their stays are so short and a checked bag that misses the flight is a big issue.
mapt 11y ago
Nuh-uh. This is your fault, Internet. Bag fees came along when booking websites cut fares to the bone, but neglected to factor in bag fees. Edit: This is also plausible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867
- eli 11y ago
  Not sure the messenger is to blame. Customers wants the cheapest possible base fare and booking websites gave them what they wanted.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    Customer wants the cheapest total price, not base fare; internet provider base fare comparisons, which are presented and perceived to represent cost comparisons, airlines game the system so that they can minimize what people are able to easily compare on while maximizing revenue.
zzalpha 11y ago
That's sure why I don't check. After they permanently lost thousands of dollars of clothes for me, I stopped checking. Add in the dangers of flight cancelations (sorry your bag is on this plane and we can't get it until tomorrow), the time spent waiting at the belt to pick up on the other side, the chance of damage, and the fees, and nope, I never check and never will when I can avoid it.
bradleyland 11y ago
Certainly a portion of carry-on travelers do so because of the reasons you listed, but the rise of checked baggage fees unquestionably made matters worse. I've been traveling for business since around 1999. Not a terribly long time, but long enough that I remember the days of simple metal detectors at security checkpoints and family greeting me at the gate when I landed. Overhead space was rarely a concern except for commuter-heavy routes. These days, I rarely get on a flight where some passengers have to gate check. The "overhead bin space is going to be tight" announcement has become a standard part of many flight attendant's duties.

megablast 11y ago

Having a reputation for losing bags, and also the fact that it takes longer to get your bag from the hold doesn't help either.

privong 11y ago

> with ever more insane checked bag fees (e.g. $25 on a $100 ticket!) You probably know this, but to be fair, this is because they need to make a certain amount to have a viable busines, and an easy way to do that is to reduce ticket prices while increasing fees for other services. In the absence of checked bag fees (and assuming all else is equal) that hypothetical $100 ticket probably would have been closer to $125. But there is clearly a psychological difference. > if you try to take a bag that is clearly too big onboard, they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check. Yea that is a bit unfair. But it likely stems from the fact that airlines often end up gate-checking bags, once the overhead bins are full. If they enforced the bag check fees at the gate and had to measure every bag to decide if it should be free or charged, flights would be delayed and passengers would be (even more) unhappy.

bryanlarsen 11y ago
In Toronto, Air Canada is now size checking and tagging carry-ons at the check-in counter. That prevents delays from doing it at the gate.
- privong 11y ago
  I have seen similar things in Chile as well. But not yet in the US.

gambiting 11y ago

" they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check." Who does this?? Try bringing a bag slightly too big or too heavy to the gate with Ryanair, EasyJet, Jet2.com, GermanWings or WizzAir - you will pay 5x as much as it would have cost to have it checked in normally. Is it a US-only thing?

zzalpha 11y ago
They do it because when the bins fill you are forced to gate check and people would be pissed if you charged them just because they were in a late boarding group.

jkyle 11y ago

Huh. Every flight I've been on (United, American, etc) have these little bins by boarding they can drop your bag in real quick to see if it'll fit the overhead. If not, they certainly don't wave the fee. . . damned protruding wheels.

VLM 11y ago

Also please consider competition for cargo space. I've "next day air" shipped things to avoid checking bags because, hey, why bother with the hassle? And for non-international stuff I don't need soon (dirty socks?) I've ground shipped at the very cheapest rates. I've walked on to planes and trains with little more than a tiny bag for camera and tickets and phone and such a couple times. Its a nice way to travel. Not as nice as paying for 1st class, but not as expensive, shipping is well worth the money. The problem is that cheaper air shipping means it may very well be in the same plane I'm flying on, insane as that sounds. Then multiple middlemen all trying to get their cut, etc. Shipping is infinitely more reliable than airline baggage, which is weird to me. The difference in loss rates is like 100 to 1. Everyone knows someone who ended up with missing baggage if not themselves, but its incredibly rare to lose a tracked postal package. I really don't understand this beyond maybe baggage handlers are more likely to be thieves than USPS mailmen.

hfsktr 11y ago
The first thing that came to mind was that it's an offense to open mail but really it seems like it's just stealing either way so that's probably not the big deterrent. Maybe there are more restrictions/logging that prevents mail from getting lost. I would find that a bit weird (that USPS would be more secure) but I somehow doubt it's because postal workers are just more honorable.

twoodfin 11y ago

...even worse if you try to take a bag that is clearly too big onboard, they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check. What annoys me is the airlines that have responded to this problem by posting "minders" outside the security gates. These folks are usually positioned to maximally embarrass and psychologically pressure (there are people behind you waiting!) anyone foolish enough to try to prove their bag actually does fit, even in the absurdly small "tester" frame. And whatever you think of the TSA, I don't like airlines piggy-backing on the nominally important security process. It's dishonest "authority by association"—the TSA couldn't care less about a few extra combined inches in your luggage—and promotes degrading the screening process into general purpose policy enforcement.

Bluestrike2 11y ago
To be fair, the TSA security process has always been little more than general purpose policy enforcement in the pursuit of "security theater." When you have 95% failure rates for DHS penetration tests [1], it's tough to argue that the security provided is anything other than illusory. In that sort of environment, why not chastise flyers over the size of their bags? They're already being chastised over everything else. [1] http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-tsa-screeners-20150602-story.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-tsa-screeners-...