5 ms·

Global airlines to reduce size of carry-on bags

31 points by user_235711 11y ago

edwhitesell 11y ago
I still think the best solution is to make basically reverse the current rules. Make the first 2 checked bags free, charge for additional after that. Allow one small carry-on, but charge for the second. The fee for the second carry-on should be at least 2x the fee for the 3rd checked bag.
- Karunamon 11y ago
  Don't checked bags incur a higher cost to the airline than carryon, though? (The whole sorting & hand screening & getting bags to the plane bit)
  - cwyers 11y ago
    The bigger cost to the airline is opportunity cost - they use leftover space in the cargo hold to carry packages, which is more lucrative than your checked bags.
  - jasode 11y ago
    There are 2 more angles to that... 1) more checked bags means less passengers wasting time fighting for non-existent overhead bin space. Less hassling with flight attendants. More efficient loading; planes have a better chance of pulling away from the gate on time. What cost savings there are to a more hassle-free boarding process, I wouldn't know how to quantify. 2) Passengers will bring carryons knowing ahead of time there will be no bin space and it will have to be checked at the jetway. (The ground crew takes the last bags down the stairs and and tosses them into the plane.) These "checked" bags don't pay the fee. Eliminating the checked bag fee removes the incentive for this loophole. However, I wouldn't know how to quantify the savings.
- jasode 11y ago
  >Allow one small carry-on, but charge for the second. I also think checked bags should be free and the carry-on bags should pay the fees. However, allowing only 1 free carry-on is a disadvantage to women who want to carry a purse (that's 1 bag) and also a laptop briefcase (that's now 2 bags) to do work. I suppose women could stuff the bare minimum of toiletries into the pockets of a laptop bag but I think a lot of them will want everything that they carry in the purse. The airlines could make an exception for purses, but then the men could claim they should also be able to bring on messenger bags[1]. Therefore, we're right back to 2 bags again. Or we allow 2 small carry-ons for free and they can't be rollerbags and suitcases. If mothers with infants require a 3rd bag for a supply of diapers, toys, etc, they have to pay. We have to draw the line somewhere :-) [1]https://www.google.com/search?q=messenger+bag&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=messenger+bag&source=lnms&tb...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - edwhitesell 11y ago
    My wife's "Diaper bag" was an oversized purse, because she didn't like the designs/styles of the actual diaper bags. When we traveled "infant in arms" we never had more than 2 carry-ons between us.
  - bryanlarsen 11y ago
    "If mothers with infants require a 3rd bag for a supply of diapers, toys, etc, they have to pay." That's not a 3rd bag, that's a bag for the infant. So you don't have to make an exception for parents, just say "2 bags per person", since the infant is a person too.
    - jasode 11y ago
      Yes that makes sense because you're using customer's logic instead of airline's logic. Airline's logic: "passenger" would mean "ticketed passenger" which would mean a seat that was paid for. Since most people do not buy separate tickets for infants (because infants are held in the arms), the infant doesn't get a "free bag". For example with American Airlines policy[1], the unticketed infant gets zero bags as an allowance. However, the diaper bag is allowed as an exception. There is no "2 carryon bags per human" type of rule. But my comment about mothers was tongue-in-cheek (note the smiley face) so we don't have to overanalyze it. [1]https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/specialAssistance/childrenTraveling.jsp?anchorLocation=DirectURL&title=children https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/specialAssistance/...
- phantom784 11y ago
  Even if checked bags are free, I prefer a carry-on when possible to avoid having to wait for my bags to show up and the possibility of them being lost.
  - youngtaff 11y ago
    +1 - carry on in the overhead, laptop under the seat infront. I can fit a weeks worth of clean clothes into a European carry on.
  - edwhitesell 11y ago
    Agreed on the part of potentially lost luggage, but I think having to wait is going to be a thing of the past soon. Alaska Air already has a 20 minute guarantee. If you bag isn't on the carousel 20 minutes after arrival at the gate, they give you $25 off your next flight or 2,500 miles. Changing the baggage rules will drive innovation/competition elsewhere. I think for the better.
    - mAritz 11y ago
      But that still adds up to 20 minutes to your full travel time. I often have flights that are only 1 hour. Waiting even 10-15 minutes (normal here) is annoying for me, especially when I'm trying to get to work on time.
      - edwhitesell 11y ago
        I'd wager it's very rare for a significant majority of deplaning passengers to make it out of the plane, through the terminal and to baggage claim before 20 minutes have passed.
comrade1 11y ago
It's in inches, but aren't those sizes right around the normal European carry-on size? My wife and I have a couple of European size carry-ons (a couple of rollers, one medical bag style) and then a couple of American size carry-ons for when we travel to the U.S. The Tumi expandable carry-on bags are nice, and my Tumi laptop bag is normally nice and compact but when I expand it I can hold enough for a few days consulting. The European size Tumi expandable roller cannot be expanded though and be carry-on size. I know this sounds like it would make a boring conversation but when you travel as much as we do it becomes important and is a common topic of conversation with colleagues that also travel.
- pmontra 11y ago
  The recommendation is metric http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2015-06-09-02.aspx http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2015-06-09-02.aspx It's 55 x 35 x 20 cm which is rounded down quite a lot to 21.5 x 13.5 x 7.5 inches. That is only 92% of the volume of the metric size. Be sure to get a European bag :-)
thrillgore 11y ago
I don't see any clarity on size requirements, and since my idea of a "carry-on" is a backpack with my laptop and a change of clothes, I'm really concerned about this.
- JshWright 11y ago
  That's generally what I travel with as well, and I usually just stick it under the seat in front of me.
UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
Airlines absolutely created this problem themselves. Aircrafts are designed to carry large bags in the hold, and small bags in the cabin. But airlines decided to actively discourage people from checking bags with ever more insane checked bag fees (e.g. $25 on a $100 ticket!) and even worse if you try to take a bag that is clearly too big onboard, they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check. Honestly the entire system seems silly to me.
- josefresco 11y ago
  I'm no expert, but didn't the concept of packing everything into your carry on develop because of the fear (rational or not) that your bag would be lost if checked? The exorbitant bag checks fees seem to have arisen in the last 5-10 years seemingly as a result of the 2008 economic crisis and overall crappy business model (cheap fares etc.)
  - bbgm 11y ago
    I think it's a bit of both. I stopped checking bags in because of all the hassles - delays, lost bags, etc. This was well before airlines started charging for checked bags, and I know many others (mostly frequent travelers) in the same boat. It's not a lot of fun showing up in London without your luggage when you have a meeting in Cambridge the next morning. Less frequent travelers I know stopped checking luggage in after the airlines started charging.
  - brixon 11y ago
    Business travelers have done this for years since their stays are so short and a checked bag that misses the flight is a big issue.
  - mapt 11y ago
    Nuh-uh. This is your fault, Internet. Bag fees came along when booking websites cut fares to the bone, but neglected to factor in bag fees. Edit: This is also plausible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867
uptown 11y ago
Airlines are doing everything they can to make people check bags. Why? Because it's revenue that doesn't get taxed. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/business/29bags.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/business/29bags.html?_r=0 It'd be in their best interest to get rid of carry-on storage altogether, drop ticket prices, and raise checked-bag fees.
- SilasX 11y ago
  Strange, it doesn't seem to explain the reasoning behind this other than that airlines like it (obviously). It goes against the general principles of tax accounting policy as well: they (indirectly) deduct the cost of handling the bags as expenses, so why not the income therefrom? Both should count towards net income, or neither should. How about when you bill out as a consultant, you can charge $1/hour, plus baggage handling fees of $199/hour?
merah 11y ago
tldr: IATA recommend new guidelines (non-binding) for carry-on luggage to be 21.5 x 13.5 x 7.5 inches.
- golemotron 11y ago
  Let's hope competition keeps us from having to buy new carry-ons now.
cmurf 11y ago
Carry on != personal item. Carry on max: 22 cm x 35 cm x 56 cm Personal item max: 22 cm x 25 cm x 43 cm On at least U.S. airlines the personal item is always free. The carry on isn't always free, e.g. Frontier. And also gate checking the 1st bag isn't always free, it can be quite a bit more expensive, again e.g. Frontier which will charge $60 at the gate.
fauigerzigerk 11y ago
It's because they keep cramming in more seats. I always used to buy the cheapest possible ticket and I very much welcomed no-frills airlines. But recently legroom has become so extremely narrow that even short flights have become torturous for my back and knees. My last Ryanair flight was horrible in every respect. From booking the flight on their buggy website infested with ads and extras and deceptive nonsense to broken baggage promises and legroom that isn't even enough to get into the recommeded heads down safety position in case of an emergency. I guess I brought this upon myself by making cheap fares the only priority. Well, no more! From now on I'm going to want to know how much legroom each airline/flight offers and I'm going to pay for more or simply stop flying if they charge excessively for it.
bedhead 11y ago
I wish the airlines would dictate the size of carry-ons based on the type of plane, because the size of overhead storage bins varies tremendously by aircraft type and vintage. It's nuts that they have the same carry-on rules for a regional jet as an A380.
- jinushaun 11y ago
  True. I already travel with a smaller suitcase that matches the proposed dimensions because I found my "standard" one was too big for most planes, especially commuter flights.
- CaptainZapp 11y ago
  They do, in a way. I have a carry-on hard case, which is certified for the cabin. As a matter of fact the airline I most often use sells it branded as carry-on luggage. it can happen, though, that I have to check it at the gate if the plane is an Avro 100 (or something similar small) and full. This is actually quite nice in Vienna, when my connecting flight is a Dash turboprop plane. I have to check it at the gate, put it on a cart at the plane entrance, but can pick it up immediately after leaving the plane with no wait times at the carousel. Even though I see your point, I don't think it's practical.
  - bedhead 11y ago
    I agree, it's impractical. Just wishful thinking.
- adaml_623 11y ago
  100% agree. Just stepped off a 777 and it's got great storage unlike the A380 with it's stupid roomy cabins with tiny lockers
eli 11y ago
If all the ads and booking sites had to include the price of the ticket with 1 checked bag and 1 carry-on then I suspect the checked bag fees would go down (or at least stop going up) and carry-on space would be less of an issue.
Zak 11y ago
I fly quite a bit and I haven't noticed a problem with there not being enough room for carry-ons. What I have noticed is some delays during boarding while people find a place for their bag carry-on to go. Anything that slows down boarding costs the airline money. They probably also want more people to pay to check bags.
- zzalpha 11y ago
  You must not fly major legs or something. Every hub-to-hub flight on United, particularly in the northeast corridor (e.g., ORD<->PHL or EWR, which I find myself on pretty regularly), not only do they run out of bin space, they pre-warn folks in boarding groups 4 or 5 to just check their bags ahead of time 'cuz odds are very good they ain't gettin' them onboard. I fly on average once a month (though it's been roughly every other week for the last couple) and it's been getting worse and worse with every trip. Makes me glad I've at least maintained silver status... in the past I used to wait until the last minute to board, but these days, being in a priority boarding group is the difference between gate checking or not gate checking...
  - Zak 11y ago
    I'm often on very crowded flights, but not so much in the northeast. Maybe people there tend to bring more/bigger luggage, but it seems to me the airlines created the issue by charging for checked bags.
    - zzalpha 11y ago
      Oh yeah, I couldn't agree more. 'course, I carry on because I don't want them to lose or damage my stuff (I get a free check bag with status but never take advantage of it), but I think most casual travelers are reacting to the fees.

31 points by user_235711 11y ago

I still think the best solution is to make basically reverse the current rules. Make the first 2 checked bags free, charge for additional after that. Allow one small carry-on, but charge for the second. The fee for the second carry-on should be at least 2x the fee for the 3rd checked bag.

Karunamon 11y ago
Don't checked bags incur a higher cost to the airline than carryon, though? (The whole sorting & hand screening & getting bags to the plane bit)
- cwyers 11y ago
  The bigger cost to the airline is opportunity cost - they use leftover space in the cargo hold to carry packages, which is more lucrative than your checked bags.
- jasode 11y ago
  There are 2 more angles to that... 1) more checked bags means less passengers wasting time fighting for non-existent overhead bin space. Less hassling with flight attendants. More efficient loading; planes have a better chance of pulling away from the gate on time. What cost savings there are to a more hassle-free boarding process, I wouldn't know how to quantify. 2) Passengers will bring carryons knowing ahead of time there will be no bin space and it will have to be checked at the jetway. (The ground crew takes the last bags down the stairs and and tosses them into the plane.) These "checked" bags don't pay the fee. Eliminating the checked bag fee removes the incentive for this loophole. However, I wouldn't know how to quantify the savings.
jasode 11y ago
>Allow one small carry-on, but charge for the second. I also think checked bags should be free and the carry-on bags should pay the fees. However, allowing only 1 free carry-on is a disadvantage to women who want to carry a purse (that's 1 bag) and also a laptop briefcase (that's now 2 bags) to do work. I suppose women could stuff the bare minimum of toiletries into the pockets of a laptop bag but I think a lot of them will want everything that they carry in the purse. The airlines could make an exception for purses, but then the men could claim they should also be able to bring on messenger bags[1]. Therefore, we're right back to 2 bags again. Or we allow 2 small carry-ons for free and they can't be rollerbags and suitcases. If mothers with infants require a 3rd bag for a supply of diapers, toys, etc, they have to pay. We have to draw the line somewhere :-) [1]https://www.google.com/search?q=messenger+bag&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=messenger+bag&source=lnms&tb...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- edwhitesell 11y ago
  My wife's "Diaper bag" was an oversized purse, because she didn't like the designs/styles of the actual diaper bags. When we traveled "infant in arms" we never had more than 2 carry-ons between us.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  "If mothers with infants require a 3rd bag for a supply of diapers, toys, etc, they have to pay." That's not a 3rd bag, that's a bag for the infant. So you don't have to make an exception for parents, just say "2 bags per person", since the infant is a person too.
  - jasode 11y ago
    Yes that makes sense because you're using customer's logic instead of airline's logic. Airline's logic: "passenger" would mean "ticketed passenger" which would mean a seat that was paid for. Since most people do not buy separate tickets for infants (because infants are held in the arms), the infant doesn't get a "free bag". For example with American Airlines policy[1], the unticketed infant gets zero bags as an allowance. However, the diaper bag is allowed as an exception. There is no "2 carryon bags per human" type of rule. But my comment about mothers was tongue-in-cheek (note the smiley face) so we don't have to overanalyze it. [1]https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/specialAssistance/childrenTraveling.jsp?anchorLocation=DirectURL&title=children https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/specialAssistance/...
phantom784 11y ago
Even if checked bags are free, I prefer a carry-on when possible to avoid having to wait for my bags to show up and the possibility of them being lost.
- youngtaff 11y ago
  +1 - carry on in the overhead, laptop under the seat infront. I can fit a weeks worth of clean clothes into a European carry on.
- edwhitesell 11y ago
  Agreed on the part of potentially lost luggage, but I think having to wait is going to be a thing of the past soon. Alaska Air already has a 20 minute guarantee. If you bag isn't on the carousel 20 minutes after arrival at the gate, they give you $25 off your next flight or 2,500 miles. Changing the baggage rules will drive innovation/competition elsewhere. I think for the better.
  - mAritz 11y ago
    But that still adds up to 20 minutes to your full travel time. I often have flights that are only 1 hour. Waiting even 10-15 minutes (normal here) is annoying for me, especially when I'm trying to get to work on time.
    - edwhitesell 11y ago
      I'd wager it's very rare for a significant majority of deplaning passengers to make it out of the plane, through the terminal and to baggage claim before 20 minutes have passed.

comrade1 11y ago

It's in inches, but aren't those sizes right around the normal European carry-on size? My wife and I have a couple of European size carry-ons (a couple of rollers, one medical bag style) and then a couple of American size carry-ons for when we travel to the U.S. The Tumi expandable carry-on bags are nice, and my Tumi laptop bag is normally nice and compact but when I expand it I can hold enough for a few days consulting. The European size Tumi expandable roller cannot be expanded though and be carry-on size. I know this sounds like it would make a boring conversation but when you travel as much as we do it becomes important and is a common topic of conversation with colleagues that also travel.

pmontra 11y ago
The recommendation is metric http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2015-06-09-02.aspx http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2015-06-09-02.aspx It's 55 x 35 x 20 cm which is rounded down quite a lot to 21.5 x 13.5 x 7.5 inches. That is only 92% of the volume of the metric size. Be sure to get a European bag :-)

thrillgore 11y ago

I don't see any clarity on size requirements, and since my idea of a "carry-on" is a backpack with my laptop and a change of clothes, I'm really concerned about this.

JshWright 11y ago
That's generally what I travel with as well, and I usually just stick it under the seat in front of me.

UnoriginalGuy 11y ago

Airlines absolutely created this problem themselves. Aircrafts are designed to carry large bags in the hold, and small bags in the cabin. But airlines decided to actively discourage people from checking bags with ever more insane checked bag fees (e.g. $25 on a $100 ticket!) and even worse if you try to take a bag that is clearly too big onboard, they waive the fee at the gate which "punishes" the people responsible enough to check. Honestly the entire system seems silly to me.

josefresco 11y ago
I'm no expert, but didn't the concept of packing everything into your carry on develop because of the fear (rational or not) that your bag would be lost if checked? The exorbitant bag checks fees seem to have arisen in the last 5-10 years seemingly as a result of the 2008 economic crisis and overall crappy business model (cheap fares etc.)
- bbgm 11y ago
  I think it's a bit of both. I stopped checking bags in because of all the hassles - delays, lost bags, etc. This was well before airlines started charging for checked bags, and I know many others (mostly frequent travelers) in the same boat. It's not a lot of fun showing up in London without your luggage when you have a meeting in Cambridge the next morning. Less frequent travelers I know stopped checking luggage in after the airlines started charging.
- brixon 11y ago
  Business travelers have done this for years since their stays are so short and a checked bag that misses the flight is a big issue.
- mapt 11y ago
  Nuh-uh. This is your fault, Internet. Bag fees came along when booking websites cut fares to the bone, but neglected to factor in bag fees. Edit: This is also plausible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9691867

uptown 11y ago

Airlines are doing everything they can to make people check bags. Why? Because it's revenue that doesn't get taxed. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/business/29bags.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/business/29bags.html?_r=0 It'd be in their best interest to get rid of carry-on storage altogether, drop ticket prices, and raise checked-bag fees.

SilasX 11y ago
Strange, it doesn't seem to explain the reasoning behind this other than that airlines like it (obviously). It goes against the general principles of tax accounting policy as well: they (indirectly) deduct the cost of handling the bags as expenses, so why not the income therefrom? Both should count towards net income, or neither should. How about when you bill out as a consultant, you can charge $1/hour, plus baggage handling fees of $199/hour?

merah 11y ago

tldr: IATA recommend new guidelines (non-binding) for carry-on luggage to be 21.5 x 13.5 x 7.5 inches.

golemotron 11y ago
Let's hope competition keeps us from having to buy new carry-ons now.

cmurf 11y ago

Carry on != personal item. Carry on max: 22 cm x 35 cm x 56 cm Personal item max: 22 cm x 25 cm x 43 cm On at least U.S. airlines the personal item is always free. The carry on isn't always free, e.g. Frontier. And also gate checking the 1st bag isn't always free, it can be quite a bit more expensive, again e.g. Frontier which will charge $60 at the gate.

fauigerzigerk 11y ago

It's because they keep cramming in more seats. I always used to buy the cheapest possible ticket and I very much welcomed no-frills airlines. But recently legroom has become so extremely narrow that even short flights have become torturous for my back and knees. My last Ryanair flight was horrible in every respect. From booking the flight on their buggy website infested with ads and extras and deceptive nonsense to broken baggage promises and legroom that isn't even enough to get into the recommeded heads down safety position in case of an emergency. I guess I brought this upon myself by making cheap fares the only priority. Well, no more! From now on I'm going to want to know how much legroom each airline/flight offers and I'm going to pay for more or simply stop flying if they charge excessively for it.

bedhead 11y ago

I wish the airlines would dictate the size of carry-ons based on the type of plane, because the size of overhead storage bins varies tremendously by aircraft type and vintage. It's nuts that they have the same carry-on rules for a regional jet as an A380.

jinushaun 11y ago
True. I already travel with a smaller suitcase that matches the proposed dimensions because I found my "standard" one was too big for most planes, especially commuter flights.
CaptainZapp 11y ago
They do, in a way. I have a carry-on hard case, which is certified for the cabin. As a matter of fact the airline I most often use sells it branded as carry-on luggage. it can happen, though, that I have to check it at the gate if the plane is an Avro 100 (or something similar small) and full. This is actually quite nice in Vienna, when my connecting flight is a Dash turboprop plane. I have to check it at the gate, put it on a cart at the plane entrance, but can pick it up immediately after leaving the plane with no wait times at the carousel. Even though I see your point, I don't think it's practical.
- bedhead 11y ago
  I agree, it's impractical. Just wishful thinking.
adaml_623 11y ago
100% agree. Just stepped off a 777 and it's got great storage unlike the A380 with it's stupid roomy cabins with tiny lockers

eli 11y ago

If all the ads and booking sites had to include the price of the ticket with 1 checked bag and 1 carry-on then I suspect the checked bag fees would go down (or at least stop going up) and carry-on space would be less of an issue.

Zak 11y ago

I fly quite a bit and I haven't noticed a problem with there not being enough room for carry-ons. What I have noticed is some delays during boarding while people find a place for their bag carry-on to go. Anything that slows down boarding costs the airline money. They probably also want more people to pay to check bags.

zzalpha 11y ago
You must not fly major legs or something. Every hub-to-hub flight on United, particularly in the northeast corridor (e.g., ORD<->PHL or EWR, which I find myself on pretty regularly), not only do they run out of bin space, they pre-warn folks in boarding groups 4 or 5 to just check their bags ahead of time 'cuz odds are very good they ain't gettin' them onboard. I fly on average once a month (though it's been roughly every other week for the last couple) and it's been getting worse and worse with every trip. Makes me glad I've at least maintained silver status... in the past I used to wait until the last minute to board, but these days, being in a priority boarding group is the difference between gate checking or not gate checking...
- Zak 11y ago
  I'm often on very crowded flights, but not so much in the northeast. Maybe people there tend to bring more/bigger luggage, but it seems to me the airlines created the issue by charging for checked bags.
  - zzalpha 11y ago
    Oh yeah, I couldn't agree more. 'course, I carry on because I don't want them to lose or damage my stuff (I get a free check bag with status but never take advantage of it), but I think most casual travelers are reacting to the fees.