4 ms·

Thanks, the word 'facade' is what came to mind reading your reply. Here in Europe I've met several Iranians, though all happenned to have lived in Western count

by lllllll 11y ago

Thanks, the word 'facade' is what came to mind reading your reply. Here in Europe I've met several Iranians, though all happenned to have lived in Western countries for many years. I am sure in those cases they are genuinely nice people, so no facades involved. >> There is no room for criticism, so things are not talked about and never sorted out This resonates with traditional Catholic families too, where "elephants in the room" are not really addressed/dealt with many times. E.g. a daughter/granddaugter having a kid out of marriage etc.

geff82 11y ago
They ARE most probably genuinely nice people, especially in their European context. I could not have married an Iranian women if I was not sure if she and her family were genuinely nice (and they are in tons, I am incredibly proud on my Persian family here and in Iran). This nicety to you is most probably not made up, don't get my former comment wrong. And they are no fools, they know you are European and obey to other rules. But... you will not find out about the inner-Iranian conflicts that arise quite more often than I would have expected and they arise most often around the fine line of taarof. You never experience those calm conflicts as an outsider, you only see them from the inside (and I think I am in the position to say that I am on the inside). And those things are surprising me, especially the lack of conflict solving skills (example: in Europe/USA people tend to forgive you when you confess having made a mistake, in Iran they tend to condemn you so in the end you try to cover)
geff82 11y ago
A real world example for a taroof related conflict: "I think on my last visit she hasn't tried to convince me hard enough to stay overnight so I think I am not wanted" - 1 1/2 years siblings not talking any more. Other sign of taarof-related conflict (real world experience): When family meets, brother has, for some unknown reason, now always "important work" to do and can never attend, when before everything was right.
lllllll 11y ago
Ok I think the Persian people need a Post-Taroof Reformist League. Those unspoken Taroof-ish concerns seem like obstacles that complicate their daily lives (sigh). I command you to plant the reformist seed in their society :D
- geff82 11y ago
  I try to :) In the form of really often expressing my explicit wish for their wonderful icecream :D :D
- geff82 11y ago
  But you know...not everything is bad. Taarof makes actual travel to Iran rather smooth and comfortable as people really try to help you the best they can (as long as you have at least a small sense of what is too much, which you get fast).
  - lllllll 11y ago
    That doesn't help the Iranians' lives! Other than getting more money injection by increase of niceness-seeker tourism, hahah. Joking, if it's like this and is not terribly linked to a religious dogma( which doesn't seem to be, more like a cultural thing), I'm sure there's a 'raison d'être'(I believe natural selection applies to not-directly-biology-linked entities such as societies). Maybe violent fights/discussions are more prevented thanks to Taroof? That's a wild guess ofc.
    - geff82 11y ago
      Yes, you are right: taarof is entirely non-religious and practiced by believers and atheists alike. I can't tell if it really prevents violent conflicts. Maybe... I also don't know if it makes life easier due to some standards of communication or if things get obfuscated and more difficult... In the end, the only sure thing is: it is like that.
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by lllllll 11y ago

geff82 11y ago

They ARE most probably genuinely nice people, especially in their European context. I could not have married an Iranian women if I was not sure if she and her family were genuinely nice (and they are in tons, I am incredibly proud on my Persian family here and in Iran). This nicety to you is most probably not made up, don't get my former comment wrong. And they are no fools, they know you are European and obey to other rules. But... you will not find out about the inner-Iranian conflicts that arise quite more often than I would have expected and they arise most often around the fine line of taarof. You never experience those calm conflicts as an outsider, you only see them from the inside (and I think I am in the position to say that I am on the inside). And those things are surprising me, especially the lack of conflict solving skills (example: in Europe/USA people tend to forgive you when you confess having made a mistake, in Iran they tend to condemn you so in the end you try to cover)

geff82 11y ago

A real world example for a taroof related conflict: "I think on my last visit she hasn't tried to convince me hard enough to stay overnight so I think I am not wanted" - 1 1/2 years siblings not talking any more. Other sign of taarof-related conflict (real world experience): When family meets, brother has, for some unknown reason, now always "important work" to do and can never attend, when before everything was right.

lllllll 11y ago

Ok I think the Persian people need a Post-Taroof Reformist League. Those unspoken Taroof-ish concerns seem like obstacles that complicate their daily lives (sigh). I command you to plant the reformist seed in their society :D

geff82 11y ago
I try to :) In the form of really often expressing my explicit wish for their wonderful icecream :D :D
geff82 11y ago
But you know...not everything is bad. Taarof makes actual travel to Iran rather smooth and comfortable as people really try to help you the best they can (as long as you have at least a small sense of what is too much, which you get fast).
- lllllll 11y ago
  That doesn't help the Iranians' lives! Other than getting more money injection by increase of niceness-seeker tourism, hahah. Joking, if it's like this and is not terribly linked to a religious dogma( which doesn't seem to be, more like a cultural thing), I'm sure there's a 'raison d'être'(I believe natural selection applies to not-directly-biology-linked entities such as societies). Maybe violent fights/discussions are more prevented thanks to Taroof? That's a wild guess ofc.
  - geff82 11y ago
    Yes, you are right: taarof is entirely non-religious and practiced by believers and atheists alike. I can't tell if it really prevents violent conflicts. Maybe... I also don't know if it makes life easier due to some standards of communication or if things get obfuscated and more difficult... In the end, the only sure thing is: it is like that.
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