7 ms·

Everybody who dares to compare Taarof to any western behavior has not experienced the sheer intensity of it... It's unlike anything I know and takes a good time

by geff82 11y ago

Everybody who dares to compare Taarof to any western behavior has not experienced the sheer intensity of it... It's unlike anything I know and takes a good time to get accustomed to (husband of real grown-up-in-Iran persian wife here...). In many cases, I find that at the end both parties do the opposite of what they wanted due to taarof, so I think this thing is rather difficult for Iranians, too, even if it is deeply ingrained to their minds. Anyhow, Taarof is what makes Iranians so lovely to Westeners in the first place (later you will find out that they, too, are just normal people).

lllllll 11y ago
>> Taarof is what makes Iranians so lovely to Westeners in the first place (later you will find out that they, too, are just normal people). Interesting, could you elaborate on that pls? Just curiosity :)
- geff82 11y ago
  Well, ask anyone how they think Iranians are (as long as they know some in person) and almost always they will tell you something along the lines of "Wow, they are so extremely nice, so polite and generous". But this is, to some extend, a facade . The more you get to really know Iranians, you understand that they too can be really mean to others, have their fights, say bad things. They just do it in other, more indirect and complicated to understand ways. And Iran is a country 100% operating on Taarof so you need a lot of context to read the meaning of words. For example, once in Shiraz I was offered some icecream by friends of the family and I was like "Yes, sure!". Until this day, they laugh about it, because such directly accepting things is uncommon there (and while otherwise aware of the customs, the possibility of getting some icecream broke my barriers...). They think it's funny when Westeners are direct like that because they, too, watch TV and know our way of life. But if I had been Iranian, my reaction would have been unacceptable unpolite. Along the lines of taarof, many misunderstandings occur that can lead to bad blood in the end without anybody really wanting it in the first place. There is no room for criticism, so things are not talked about and never sorted out.
  - lllllll 11y ago
    Thanks, the word 'facade' is what came to mind reading your reply. Here in Europe I've met several Iranians, though all happenned to have lived in Western countries for many years. I am sure in those cases they are genuinely nice people, so no facades involved. >> There is no room for criticism, so things are not talked about and never sorted out This resonates with traditional Catholic families too, where "elephants in the room" are not really addressed/dealt with many times. E.g. a daughter/granddaugter having a kid out of marriage etc.
    - geff82 11y ago
      They ARE most probably genuinely nice people, especially in their European context. I could not have married an Iranian women if I was not sure if she and her family were genuinely nice (and they are in tons, I am incredibly proud on my Persian family here and in Iran). This nicety to you is most probably not made up, don't get my former comment wrong. And they are no fools, they know you are European and obey to other rules. But... you will not find out about the inner-Iranian conflicts that arise quite more often than I would have expected and they arise most often around the fine line of taarof. You never experience those calm conflicts as an outsider, you only see them from the inside (and I think I am in the position to say that I am on the inside). And those things are surprising me, especially the lack of conflict solving skills (example: in Europe/USA people tend to forgive you when you confess having made a mistake, in Iran they tend to condemn you so in the end you try to cover)
    - geff82 11y ago
      A real world example for a taroof related conflict: "I think on my last visit she hasn't tried to convince me hard enough to stay overnight so I think I am not wanted" - 1 1/2 years siblings not talking any more. Other sign of taarof-related conflict (real world experience): When family meets, brother has, for some unknown reason, now always "important work" to do and can never attend, when before everything was right.
    - lllllll 11y ago
      Ok I think the Persian people need a Post-Taroof Reformist League. Those unspoken Taroof-ish concerns seem like obstacles that complicate their daily lives (sigh). I command you to plant the reformist seed in their society :D

by geff82 11y ago

lllllll 11y ago

>> Taarof is what makes Iranians so lovely to Westeners in the first place (later you will find out that they, too, are just normal people). Interesting, could you elaborate on that pls? Just curiosity :)

geff82 11y ago
Well, ask anyone how they think Iranians are (as long as they know some in person) and almost always they will tell you something along the lines of "Wow, they are so extremely nice, so polite and generous". But this is, to some extend, a facade . The more you get to really know Iranians, you understand that they too can be really mean to others, have their fights, say bad things. They just do it in other, more indirect and complicated to understand ways. And Iran is a country 100% operating on Taarof so you need a lot of context to read the meaning of words. For example, once in Shiraz I was offered some icecream by friends of the family and I was like "Yes, sure!". Until this day, they laugh about it, because such directly accepting things is uncommon there (and while otherwise aware of the customs, the possibility of getting some icecream broke my barriers...). They think it's funny when Westeners are direct like that because they, too, watch TV and know our way of life. But if I had been Iranian, my reaction would have been unacceptable unpolite. Along the lines of taarof, many misunderstandings occur that can lead to bad blood in the end without anybody really wanting it in the first place. There is no room for criticism, so things are not talked about and never sorted out.
- lllllll 11y ago
  Thanks, the word 'facade' is what came to mind reading your reply. Here in Europe I've met several Iranians, though all happenned to have lived in Western countries for many years. I am sure in those cases they are genuinely nice people, so no facades involved. >> There is no room for criticism, so things are not talked about and never sorted out This resonates with traditional Catholic families too, where "elephants in the room" are not really addressed/dealt with many times. E.g. a daughter/granddaugter having a kid out of marriage etc.
  - geff82 11y ago
    They ARE most probably genuinely nice people, especially in their European context. I could not have married an Iranian women if I was not sure if she and her family were genuinely nice (and they are in tons, I am incredibly proud on my Persian family here and in Iran). This nicety to you is most probably not made up, don't get my former comment wrong. And they are no fools, they know you are European and obey to other rules. But... you will not find out about the inner-Iranian conflicts that arise quite more often than I would have expected and they arise most often around the fine line of taarof. You never experience those calm conflicts as an outsider, you only see them from the inside (and I think I am in the position to say that I am on the inside). And those things are surprising me, especially the lack of conflict solving skills (example: in Europe/USA people tend to forgive you when you confess having made a mistake, in Iran they tend to condemn you so in the end you try to cover)
  - geff82 11y ago
    A real world example for a taroof related conflict: "I think on my last visit she hasn't tried to convince me hard enough to stay overnight so I think I am not wanted" - 1 1/2 years siblings not talking any more. Other sign of taarof-related conflict (real world experience): When family meets, brother has, for some unknown reason, now always "important work" to do and can never attend, when before everything was right.
  - lllllll 11y ago
    Ok I think the Persian people need a Post-Taroof Reformist League. Those unspoken Taroof-ish concerns seem like obstacles that complicate their daily lives (sigh). I command you to plant the reformist seed in their society :D