3 ms·

Somehow I think truth might be somewhere between "Poor people are making rational decisions to consume status goods in the hopes of improving their economic out

by patio11 11y ago

Somehow I think truth might be somewhere between "Poor people are making rational decisions to consume status goods in the hopes of improving their economic outcomes by convincing gatekeepers that they are, in fact, middle class" and "Poor people are spending $2,500 on handbags because poor people value handbags more than they value $2,500." Case in point: there is no conceivable narrative by which one's sofa gets one welfare benefits or a new job as a shift lead. Poor people apparently are quite aware of this. When asked (in the article referenced by a sibling thread), the young lady's answer to "Why did you buy a sofa?" answer was "Because I wanted a sofa."

dghf 11y ago
Can you link to the article in question? Wanting a sofa does not seem unreasonable (you have to sit on something), and I feel I'm missing something. Was it a particularly expensive sofa? Or by 'sofa', do you mean something other than 'couch', which is what I take it to mean?
- patio11 11y ago
  c.f. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689979 pointing to here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/10/16/she-bought-a-sofa-on-installment-payments-now-its-straining-her-life/?src=longreads http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/10/16/s...
- jasonkester 11y ago
  The idea is that one does not need a $1500 sofa if all one wants is something to sit on. As an example, I purchased my first sofa costing more than zero at age 43. But I've always had sofas everywhere I lived before that. Sofas that meet the definition of "something to sit on" can be had for roughly zero dollars and are plentiful at that price point. You would notice the difference if you put one side by side with a new one costing $1500, indicating that perhaps that difference in appearance is the real reason that somebody without $1500 to spare would choose to buy the latter in favor of the former.
_nedR 11y ago
No. What she said was she wanted "normal". Have you noticed how the poor people on tv have money for nice clothes and apartments. Basically she didn't want to feel poor. She didn't want her kids to grow thinking they were poor.
- XorNot 11y ago
  The other aspect is this: when you're poor, the moment you have money, usually some beurocratic muppetry will conspire to take it away against for essentially bullshit reasons. These reasons are unavoidable unless you have a lot more money, but they'll also just be added to the pile of debts you can't avoid anyway. So why not spend that liquid cash now, while you have it, rather then waiting for life to decide to screw you over again and take it away for no appreciable gain?
Menge 11y ago
I don't think answers a person gives about their decisions is ever "real" data. For example, a rich male buying who bought an impractical sports car will give an answer that conflicts with how those around him would account for his actions. This points my thinking back toward impulse control and delayed gratification ability being deciding factors when looking at why the sofa seems compatible with a poor young person and a sports car and a rich older person. But with near negative interest rates, I wonder whether if the excessive sofa isn't the investment vehicle of the future. Telling your network about that indiscretion (and reminding them in your selfies) may have them thinking of you when new sources of income come up.
Shivetya 11y ago
Marketers prey on these people, television shows extoll the virtues of appearance, and with credit while expensive available many of these people are just too easy to take advantage of. you don't even have to be "poor" to be coerced into buying something too expensive for your household, Apple is the best example but many companies strive to build the got to have it mentality and personal electronics is has one of the lowest entry points for immediate recognition. Clothing isn't far behind, nor shoes, but the recognition factor outside a few brands isn't there. Cars are where its at in the middle to upper middle income brackets. People will willingly spend themselves poor for a feeling of at least equality or success
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  It's interesting to draw a parallel to piracy - why does piracy exist? When asked, people will often say "Because I can't afford to buy music / movies" - which actually implies that they feel entitled to said products. With piracy, theft is much easier and without repercussions or even a social stigma. With physical goods, less so - but people will still feel like they need or are entitled to certain goods (like expensive smartphones or fashion items).

by patio11 11y ago

dghf 11y ago

Can you link to the article in question? Wanting a sofa does not seem unreasonable (you have to sit on something), and I feel I'm missing something. Was it a particularly expensive sofa? Or by 'sofa', do you mean something other than 'couch', which is what I take it to mean?

patio11 11y ago
c.f. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689979 pointing to here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/10/16/she-bought-a-sofa-on-installment-payments-now-its-straining-her-life/?src=longreads http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/10/16/s...
jasonkester 11y ago
The idea is that one does not need a $1500 sofa if all one wants is something to sit on. As an example, I purchased my first sofa costing more than zero at age 43. But I've always had sofas everywhere I lived before that. Sofas that meet the definition of "something to sit on" can be had for roughly zero dollars and are plentiful at that price point. You would notice the difference if you put one side by side with a new one costing $1500, indicating that perhaps that difference in appearance is the real reason that somebody without $1500 to spare would choose to buy the latter in favor of the former.

_nedR 11y ago

No. What she said was she wanted "normal". Have you noticed how the poor people on tv have money for nice clothes and apartments. Basically she didn't want to feel poor. She didn't want her kids to grow thinking they were poor.

XorNot 11y ago
The other aspect is this: when you're poor, the moment you have money, usually some beurocratic muppetry will conspire to take it away against for essentially bullshit reasons. These reasons are unavoidable unless you have a lot more money, but they'll also just be added to the pile of debts you can't avoid anyway. So why not spend that liquid cash now, while you have it, rather then waiting for life to decide to screw you over again and take it away for no appreciable gain?

Menge 11y ago

I don't think answers a person gives about their decisions is ever "real" data. For example, a rich male buying who bought an impractical sports car will give an answer that conflicts with how those around him would account for his actions. This points my thinking back toward impulse control and delayed gratification ability being deciding factors when looking at why the sofa seems compatible with a poor young person and a sports car and a rich older person. But with near negative interest rates, I wonder whether if the excessive sofa isn't the investment vehicle of the future. Telling your network about that indiscretion (and reminding them in your selfies) may have them thinking of you when new sources of income come up.

Shivetya 11y ago

Marketers prey on these people, television shows extoll the virtues of appearance, and with credit while expensive available many of these people are just too easy to take advantage of. you don't even have to be "poor" to be coerced into buying something too expensive for your household, Apple is the best example but many companies strive to build the got to have it mentality and personal electronics is has one of the lowest entry points for immediate recognition. Clothing isn't far behind, nor shoes, but the recognition factor outside a few brands isn't there. Cars are where its at in the middle to upper middle income brackets. People will willingly spend themselves poor for a feeling of at least equality or success

Cthulhu_ 11y ago
It's interesting to draw a parallel to piracy - why does piracy exist? When asked, people will often say "Because I can't afford to buy music / movies" - which actually implies that they feel entitled to said products. With piracy, theft is much easier and without repercussions or even a social stigma. With physical goods, less so - but people will still feel like they need or are entitled to certain goods (like expensive smartphones or fashion items).