4 ms·

It seems to me a reasonable fix would be to legislate hospitals have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all. So no group/insurance compan

It seems to me a reasonable fix would be to legislate hospitals have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all. So no group/insurance company discounts. Make them compete openly and without discrimination. Then people/business can select fairly for non-emergency type treatments their hospital on a level playing field. That said, I'm fortunate to have lived in several countries that have great universal healthcare. I thoroughly believe achieving this should be one of 3 key goals for any country.

grecy 11y ago
> have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all You mean guaranteed (set) profits. The telco I work for operates under exactly that model, and it sucks. For everyone.
- Gustomaximus 11y ago
  This would have nothing to do with guaranteed profits. If people don't like the prices no-one will go to the hospital and profits wont exist. They simply have to price transparently at amounts that are available for all people without discrimination to someones healthcare company or lack of.
  - jbi 11y ago
    Uhm.. Sometimes there is a need to go to a hospital ;)
    - Gustomaximus 11y ago
      If you refer to the original comment you will see this refers to non-emergency treatments. In this people have choice and can largely travel to an alternate locations making this solution feasible for the majority. For emergency treatment, a different model would be needed to reduce gouging issues, likely more direct market intervention for areas the discussed wouldn't benefit. I'll leave that for another day.
  - grecy 11y ago
    > legislate hospitals have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all. Fixed pricing = fixed profits.
jbi 11y ago
There is a regulation like this in Germany. It leads to a behaviour where hospitals try to have as many well-paid treatments as possible. 'Surgery 1' does not pay well by list so they add 'Unnecessary Treatment 2'. My point: such a list would have failures and they would be exploited.
dylanjermiah 11y ago
>It seems to me a reasonable fix would be to legislate hospitals have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all. So no group/insurance company discounts. Make them compete openly and without discrimination. Legislation created the current environment, I do not believe more legislation will fix it.
ars 11y ago
The thing that is driving this problem is that medicare pays less than it costs for the service. Hospitals have to make the money up somehow, so they bill everyone else inflated prices. The insurance companies know the prices are inflated, so try to negotiate them down. Hospitals agree to be negotiated down since at least they make something. And of course some insurance companies get a better deal (for various reasons) than others. What ends up happening is that everyone pays a different price, and standardizing the price would only hurt the hospital. This is completely unfixable so long as medicare pays so little. Some people want to fix this with a single payer system, not realizing that doing so would only make things worse. Either medical costs will go up for the government, or hospitals will go broke. Neither outcome is acceptable to people. And that is how we ended up in the pathetic state we are in today.
- guelo 11y ago
  That argumet doesnt make sense because hospitals are not forced to take Medicare. It is a profitable business decision to take Medicare otherwise they wouldn't do it.
  - ars 11y ago
    They sort of are forced to by community pressure. If they don't they lose status, and are sent fewer patients, politicians criticize them, etc, etc. They lose money on the actual procedures, but make it up in other ways, so it's worth it for them in total.
- Gustomaximus 11y ago
  > Some people want to fix this with a single payer system, not realizing that doing so would only make things worse. Either medical costs will go up for the government, or hospitals will go broke. I don't buy this. USA has huge per-person medical costs beyond any other country. There is absolutely room for efficiency by society/government that private enterprise isn't delivering. Look at some of these comparisons: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-...

grecy 11y ago

> have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all You mean guaranteed (set) profits. The telco I work for operates under exactly that model, and it sucks. For everyone.

Gustomaximus 11y ago
This would have nothing to do with guaranteed profits. If people don't like the prices no-one will go to the hospital and profits wont exist. They simply have to price transparently at amounts that are available for all people without discrimination to someones healthcare company or lack of.
- jbi 11y ago
  Uhm.. Sometimes there is a need to go to a hospital ;)
  - Gustomaximus 11y ago
    If you refer to the original comment you will see this refers to non-emergency treatments. In this people have choice and can largely travel to an alternate locations making this solution feasible for the majority. For emergency treatment, a different model would be needed to reduce gouging issues, likely more direct market intervention for areas the discussed wouldn't benefit. I'll leave that for another day.
- grecy 11y ago
  > legislate hospitals have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all. Fixed pricing = fixed profits.

jbi 11y ago

There is a regulation like this in Germany. It leads to a behaviour where hospitals try to have as many well-paid treatments as possible. 'Surgery 1' does not pay well by list so they add 'Unnecessary Treatment 2'. My point: such a list would have failures and they would be exploited.

dylanjermiah 11y ago

>It seems to me a reasonable fix would be to legislate hospitals have to set open and fixed pricing for procedures/services for all. So no group/insurance company discounts. Make them compete openly and without discrimination. Legislation created the current environment, I do not believe more legislation will fix it.

ars 11y ago

The thing that is driving this problem is that medicare pays less than it costs for the service. Hospitals have to make the money up somehow, so they bill everyone else inflated prices. The insurance companies know the prices are inflated, so try to negotiate them down. Hospitals agree to be negotiated down since at least they make something. And of course some insurance companies get a better deal (for various reasons) than others. What ends up happening is that everyone pays a different price, and standardizing the price would only hurt the hospital. This is completely unfixable so long as medicare pays so little. Some people want to fix this with a single payer system, not realizing that doing so would only make things worse. Either medical costs will go up for the government, or hospitals will go broke. Neither outcome is acceptable to people. And that is how we ended up in the pathetic state we are in today.

guelo 11y ago
That argumet doesnt make sense because hospitals are not forced to take Medicare. It is a profitable business decision to take Medicare otherwise they wouldn't do it.
- ars 11y ago
  They sort of are forced to by community pressure. If they don't they lose status, and are sent fewer patients, politicians criticize them, etc, etc. They lose money on the actual procedures, but make it up in other ways, so it's worth it for them in total.
Gustomaximus 11y ago
> Some people want to fix this with a single payer system, not realizing that doing so would only make things worse. Either medical costs will go up for the government, or hospitals will go broke. I don't buy this. USA has huge per-person medical costs beyond any other country. There is absolutely room for efficiency by society/government that private enterprise isn't delivering. Look at some of these comparisons: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-...