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"Web is winning." If you mean "everything but HTML-based web sites", that's accurate. If you mean the actual Web sites, I really don't see it. The Web is hu

"Web is winning." If you mean "everything but HTML-based web sites", that's accurate. If you mean the actual Web sites, I really don't see it. The Web is huge, so isn't exactly dying, but it certainly isn't winning. Native mobile is "winning", in terms of being usually a far superior UX, and by sheer numerical demand. Native still often (thankfully) uses architectural elements of the web (URIs and HTTP) and the UX of Hyperlinking. But the HTML web as we know it hasn't kept up well with the native experience. With the massive investments in IoT being laid down along with VR/AR experiences coming out of Facebook, Google, and Microsoft, this trend will likely only continue, unless someone releases a new innovative hypermedia format & client that catches on. "They're giving you new languages and development environments because they are holding on for dear life, and I'm not willing to accept being charmed into closed development environments." I applaud your commitment to openness, truly, but I suggest you need to look at the global market little harder. These companies are not holding on for dear life. They're growing in power. I watched the WWDC Keynote. The crowd just about had kittens when they announced Swift will be open sourced. Twitter nearly exploded. These are anecdotes yes, but the numbers are backing Swift's meteoric rise. Apple has a vested interest to promote Swift far and wide, perhaps even going so far as Sun did with Java, with the hindsight of their mistakes. Whereas Google could have done this with Golang but seem to be keeping a lid on it for unknown reasons. Best theory I have is that Apple is a product company and Google is a technology company. Golang is making good headway as a server-side language mainly by several companies that aren't Google.

VikingCoder 11y ago
> Native mobile is "winning", in terms of being usually a far superior UX, and by sheer numerical demand. Yeah? I could type a URL to anything here, and you could view it. If instead hide my content behind an app, I can't deep link to it. The likelihood of you installing the app to see the content is way lower. You need space on your mobile device to install my app. Potentially a password entered to install it. It needs to be compatible with your device. You need to approve my permissions. The content of my app isn't searched in any search engine. You can't bookmark where you were. I'm not at all convinced that native mobile has "far superior UX." Sure, aspects of it, no question. And sheer numerical demand? Again, I'm not so sure. Actually, I'm quite sure you're wrong.
- parasubvert 11y ago
  I am a huge proponent of the web architecture, I just think HTML is dying from the politicization of the standards process and resulting slow pace of innovation. "If instead hide my content behind an app, I can't deep link to it. " This is not true. I enter a URL into my iPhone's Safari, it deep links into the App associated with the domain. We just watched a WWDC keynote that showed plenty of deep linking between apps, from Siri, etc. "The likelihood of you installing the app to see the content is way lower..." This is also contrary to the data - people love apps, download and use apps like mad. Over $100 billion in revenue is expected to be from mobile apps this year. That's bigger than Hollywood box office 3x, bigger than book publishing 10x, bigger than PC software. The only thing it doesn't eclipse is packaged/server software yet. Installing and using apps is demonstrating to be less effort than using the web on a mobile device: I have to do it once, vs. have to deal with a slow web browser every time I use the website. This isn't to say people don't use the web on their phones, it's that if an app is available, people will pick the app. "Potentially a password entered to install it... You need to approve my permissions" Same on any website I have to sign up with via form or OAuth2. And if an app has in-app purchases, I do none of that (just sign in on the store or use my thumbprint). "The content of my app isn't searched in any search engine. You can't bookmark where you were." That's interesting, most of the apps I use are searchable in the app, or on the Web. That doesn't mean I'm using a web browser to do most of the interactions. Again, I don't think the Web is going away, just that HTML is becoming the new command prompt. That might change if something awesome comes out via open hypermedia. Doesn't look like it though... given how rich experiences are getting and how political the HTML standards process is. "And sheer numerical demand? Again, I'm not so sure. Actually, I'm quite sure you're wrong." By what measure? I mean, I don't claim infallibility here, I'm just saying that (a) mobile smartphones are quickly becoming the most common device on the planet, more common than a toothbrush, car, or toilet, (b) all of these support apps, (c) almost every company with a service or content has an app, (d) almost every user will prefer an app over over an website, and (e) thus almost all the money spent on consumer software is moving to native mobile. I'm following the money and the usage figures..
  - VikingCoder 11y ago

VikingCoder 11y ago

> Native mobile is "winning", in terms of being usually a far superior UX, and by sheer numerical demand. Yeah? I could type a URL to anything here, and you could view it. If instead hide my content behind an app, I can't deep link to it. The likelihood of you installing the app to see the content is way lower. You need space on your mobile device to install my app. Potentially a password entered to install it. It needs to be compatible with your device. You need to approve my permissions. The content of my app isn't searched in any search engine. You can't bookmark where you were. I'm not at all convinced that native mobile has "far superior UX." Sure, aspects of it, no question. And sheer numerical demand? Again, I'm not so sure. Actually, I'm quite sure you're wrong.

parasubvert 11y ago
I am a huge proponent of the web architecture, I just think HTML is dying from the politicization of the standards process and resulting slow pace of innovation. "If instead hide my content behind an app, I can't deep link to it. " This is not true. I enter a URL into my iPhone's Safari, it deep links into the App associated with the domain. We just watched a WWDC keynote that showed plenty of deep linking between apps, from Siri, etc. "The likelihood of you installing the app to see the content is way lower..." This is also contrary to the data - people love apps, download and use apps like mad. Over $100 billion in revenue is expected to be from mobile apps this year. That's bigger than Hollywood box office 3x, bigger than book publishing 10x, bigger than PC software. The only thing it doesn't eclipse is packaged/server software yet. Installing and using apps is demonstrating to be less effort than using the web on a mobile device: I have to do it once, vs. have to deal with a slow web browser every time I use the website. This isn't to say people don't use the web on their phones, it's that if an app is available, people will pick the app. "Potentially a password entered to install it... You need to approve my permissions" Same on any website I have to sign up with via form or OAuth2. And if an app has in-app purchases, I do none of that (just sign in on the store or use my thumbprint). "The content of my app isn't searched in any search engine. You can't bookmark where you were." That's interesting, most of the apps I use are searchable in the app, or on the Web. That doesn't mean I'm using a web browser to do most of the interactions. Again, I don't think the Web is going away, just that HTML is becoming the new command prompt. That might change if something awesome comes out via open hypermedia. Doesn't look like it though... given how rich experiences are getting and how political the HTML standards process is. "And sheer numerical demand? Again, I'm not so sure. Actually, I'm quite sure you're wrong." By what measure? I mean, I don't claim infallibility here, I'm just saying that (a) mobile smartphones are quickly becoming the most common device on the planet, more common than a toothbrush, car, or toilet, (b) all of these support apps, (c) almost every company with a service or content has an app, (d) almost every user will prefer an app over over an website, and (e) thus almost all the money spent on consumer software is moving to native mobile. I'm following the money and the usage figures..
- VikingCoder 11y ago