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> The traditional closed-air mall is in fact dying, in most locales across the country. I'm seeing the exact opposite. > The transition to online shopping red

by maratd 11y ago

> The traditional closed-air mall is in fact dying, in most locales across the country. I'm seeing the exact opposite. > The transition to online shopping reduces the need for trips to the big box "anchor" stores Most of the malls in this area have transitioned to entertainment destinations. Huge movie theaters, the stores are more showroom ... Tesla, Perch, Apple, etc., tons of restaurants. They're building a new mall nearby. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands Apparently the cost is 3.5 billion? The new mall will have an ice rink, amusement park, water park, concert hall, movie theater, and an indoor 12-story ski slope for skiing, snowboarding and tubing. Does that sound like something that's dying?

macandcheese 11y ago
Well, the Xanadu complex has been an interesting destination / planning story since the beginning. But that's also in a pretty unique area and, as you mentioned, is a far cry from what most small-town malls across America can offer (or afford to). The original draw at the Xanadu complex was an indoor ski ramp, if I remember. And, to take a stab at the price you mention, I recall a certain Atlantic City casino with a similar price tag that was opened a few years back, and closed very shortly after it opened.
- artmageddon 11y ago
  You'd be correct for the ski ramp, and I was interested in it be used of the proposed indoor skydiving tunnel. The casino you are referring to in Atlantic City was Revel, which did indeed close.
Retric 11y ago
"Does that sound like something that's dying?" Yes, plenty of malls try the entertainment idea before failing, the issue is entertainment takes far longer than a store. So you end up far lower foot traffic levels which kills off the nitch stores that pay the most rent per squre foot. Without those high rent store the mall can't afford enough matence to keep the place pristeen which ends up driving away the big spenders starting the final death spiral. In the end it's simple math, middle class incomes have been stagnate for more than a generation and people are doing far more online retail which means less leftover for malls.
mcphage 11y ago
> The new mall will have an ice rink, amusement park, water park, concert hall, movie theater, and an indoor 12-story ski slope for skiing, snowboarding and tubing. > Does that sound like something that's dying? Yeah, it does. It's saying "we can't exist as just a shopping center any more, so we've got to become an all-in-one entertainment destination instead." Which, I'm sure will be successful, but not every city can support a $3.5 billion complex like that, and it doesn't bode well for the thousands of existing locations which are just plain shopping malls.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Yeah, it does. It's saying "we can't exist as just a shopping center any more, so we've got to become an all-in-one entertainment destination instead." Not really. If it was dying it wouldn't get investments to extra structures and entertainment. Why put your new attractions to a dying complex? It's only if it already does well that it can expand like that.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  Malls as all in one entertainment centers were the norm most of the existence of malls; as well as shopping they usually include dining, included arcades when those were a viable business, very often movie theaters, and often some other, usually child/family-focused, entertainment venue. If anything, they've narrowed in focus from the latter 1990s to today -- arcades mostly gone, diversity of shopping reduced to mostly clothing stores, etc. -- broadening the focus returns malls to the kind of destination that they've been four most of their history.

by maratd 11y ago

macandcheese 11y ago

Well, the Xanadu complex has been an interesting destination / planning story since the beginning. But that's also in a pretty unique area and, as you mentioned, is a far cry from what most small-town malls across America can offer (or afford to). The original draw at the Xanadu complex was an indoor ski ramp, if I remember. And, to take a stab at the price you mention, I recall a certain Atlantic City casino with a similar price tag that was opened a few years back, and closed very shortly after it opened.

artmageddon 11y ago
You'd be correct for the ski ramp, and I was interested in it be used of the proposed indoor skydiving tunnel. The casino you are referring to in Atlantic City was Revel, which did indeed close.

Retric 11y ago

"Does that sound like something that's dying?" Yes, plenty of malls try the entertainment idea before failing, the issue is entertainment takes far longer than a store. So you end up far lower foot traffic levels which kills off the nitch stores that pay the most rent per squre foot. Without those high rent store the mall can't afford enough matence to keep the place pristeen which ends up driving away the big spenders starting the final death spiral. In the end it's simple math, middle class incomes have been stagnate for more than a generation and people are doing far more online retail which means less leftover for malls.

mcphage 11y ago

> The new mall will have an ice rink, amusement park, water park, concert hall, movie theater, and an indoor 12-story ski slope for skiing, snowboarding and tubing. > Does that sound like something that's dying? Yeah, it does. It's saying "we can't exist as just a shopping center any more, so we've got to become an all-in-one entertainment destination instead." Which, I'm sure will be successful, but not every city can support a $3.5 billion complex like that, and it doesn't bode well for the thousands of existing locations which are just plain shopping malls.

coldtea 11y ago
>Yeah, it does. It's saying "we can't exist as just a shopping center any more, so we've got to become an all-in-one entertainment destination instead." Not really. If it was dying it wouldn't get investments to extra structures and entertainment. Why put your new attractions to a dying complex? It's only if it already does well that it can expand like that.
dragonwriter 11y ago
Malls as all in one entertainment centers were the norm most of the existence of malls; as well as shopping they usually include dining, included arcades when those were a viable business, very often movie theaters, and often some other, usually child/family-focused, entertainment venue. If anything, they've narrowed in focus from the latter 1990s to today -- arcades mostly gone, diversity of shopping reduced to mostly clothing stores, etc. -- broadening the focus returns malls to the kind of destination that they've been four most of their history.