5 ms·

Malls Aren't Dying, They're Thriving

41 points by acheron 11y ago

Yhippa 11y ago
Warning: User 'newgeog_todbot' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 720000) query: SELECT CASE WHEN status=1 THEN 0 ELSE 1 END FROM access WHERE type = 'host' AND LOWER('96.89.0.129') LIKE LOWER(mask) ORDER BY status DESC LIMIT 0, 1 in /home/newgeog/public_html/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 172 Exposing your SQL queries in an exception on a public-facing website does not seem like a best practice.
- mcantelon 11y ago
  Their file paths too. Looks like they're running Drupal by the tables. EDIT: Yup, Drupal 5.7 seemingly (old, likely security issues). http://www.newgeography.com/CHANGELOG.txt http://www.newgeography.com/CHANGELOG.txt
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  From a UX POV, probably not. If this is a security complaint, well, its less exposed information (a strict subset) than if your app was open source, so I don't see it as particularly a problem.
  - viraptor 11y ago
    Actually it's not a subset. Even if the app is open source, what you gain from this error is: username, installation path, resource limits. All of those add something you don't know from the code itself. All can be useful when trying (respectively) injections / bruteforce auth, path traversal / secrets access, denial of service. Also line numbers can help you identify the deployed version. Also optional table prefixes which are deployment-specific.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      You're right, I was wrong; leaving the grandparent post just for context for your response, otherwise I'd delete it.
  - __z 11y ago
    Information leakage is considered a security vulnerability. https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Information_Leakage https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Information_Leakage
lholden 11y ago
Awesome! goes to her local mall... Oh wait. Its dying and has quite literally two businesses left in it. It's the only mall within an hour from where I live. The mall at the last place I lived closed down a couple years ago, also due to lack of business. I know my experience is of a very small sample...
- acheron 11y ago
  The failure of your local mall doesn't extend to the concept of "malls are dying". As the article says: To suggest malls are dead based on failure in failed places would be like suggesting that the manifest shortcomings of Baltimore or Buffalo means urban centers are not doing well. Like cities, not all malls are alike.
macandcheese 11y ago
The traditional closed-air mall is in fact dying, in most locales across the country. The transition to online shopping reduces the need for trips to the big box "anchor" stores, and as a result the smaller stores receive less foot traffic walking by, and in time are forced to close. This is very similar to how many American downtowns suffered in the 1970s when malls themselves were rising in popularity. Big box stores, seeking lower rents and closer quarters to one another (captive pocketbooks!), re-located to the more affordable fringes of town. As cities sprawled and families piled in their cars for shopping trips, independent locally-owned stores in medium-sized urban downtowns went out of business when the "anchor" stores packed up and moved to indoor malls. This lead to economic stagnation in the former "hearts" of small American cities, as the economic drivers moved from the geographic urban centers to further into the suburban sprawl. Quite a fascinating cycle. Large city center malls don't suffer the same fate, since they don't rely on the draw of a few anchor stores, and have a higher percentage of out of town visitors. What you are seeing emerge instead in most of suburban America is a new kind of open air, "commons" type of shopping destination, which provides a uniquely different experience than either a closed-air mall or online shopping can afford.
- maratd 11y ago
  > The traditional closed-air mall is in fact dying, in most locales across the country. I'm seeing the exact opposite. > The transition to online shopping reduces the need for trips to the big box "anchor" stores Most of the malls in this area have transitioned to entertainment destinations. Huge movie theaters, the stores are more showroom ... Tesla, Perch, Apple, etc., tons of restaurants. They're building a new mall nearby. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands Apparently the cost is 3.5 billion? The new mall will have an ice rink, amusement park, water park, concert hall, movie theater, and an indoor 12-story ski slope for skiing, snowboarding and tubing. Does that sound like something that's dying?
  - macandcheese 11y ago
    Well, the Xanadu complex has been an interesting destination / planning story since the beginning. But that's also in a pretty unique area and, as you mentioned, is a far cry from what most small-town malls across America can offer (or afford to). The original draw at the Xanadu complex was an indoor ski ramp, if I remember. And, to take a stab at the price you mention, I recall a certain Atlantic City casino with a similar price tag that was opened a few years back, and closed very shortly after it opened.
pizzasynthesis 11y ago
Anyone have a mirror?
pizzasynthesis 11y ago
Anyone have a mirror?
jdonaldson 11y ago
There's a pretty close parallel here with American libraries. Conventional libraries suffered in the transition to online information/book sources. But, they've become a great community gathering place, especially for kids. I've seen evidence that malls are headed this direction with the increasing size of their indoor play areas, etc. The stores can come and go, but I think the folks running the mall properties will figure out what to do to stay a viable destination for large numbers of people.
- bane 11y ago
  I agree. The local libraries around me have been undergoing a steady transformation into resource-rich study centers for school-aged kids to college kids. On-line degree programs also seem to attract loads of people looking for quiet places with reference sections to study. My county system also has a robust e-book, book-on-tape on-line check-out system, community activities (kids Minecraft club, adult retrogaming Saturdays, book club guest speakers, puppet shows, etc.) The library system in my county is actually growing due to so many people using them. They've become true community centers and I personally find it a beautiful thing.
  - ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
    I pity the poor people who simply want dead tree books to read.
bane 11y ago
I can think of half-a-dozen closed air malls within 30 minutes of each other where I live. Some of them are absolutely thriving, packed full of shoppers pretty much all day and on a race to expand space and amenities with the growing crowds. Others are near-dead ghost towns with something like 50% occupancy and entire wings blocked off because of a homeless/drug addict/gang problem. Most of the open-air "town center" style malls around me are also packed to the gills at all times. It's actually unpleasant to shop at them because they're so crowded, but they usually mix in outlet stores with regular stores and draw huge tourist crowds. I'm not sure what the trend is, not all that long ago I would say they're definitely - most certainly dying. But then one of the near-dead malls near me just changed hands, is undergoing major renovation and the numbers of stores and shoppers is growing. I think people like the social aspect of shopping, the walking around and browsing, touching things, trying them on. My wife orders lots of clothes on-line, but the smart stores let her return non-fitting clothes in-store, where she'll also check out what they're offering, try some things on and then buy more -- she's not the only one.
mturmon 11y ago
The author, Joel Kotkin, definitely has a preconceived notion about development, suburbia, and malls. (That being, he is a booster for all three, for example, see http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/30/kotkin_on_suburbia_he_forgot_about_prices.html?original_referrer=http%253A%252F%252Ft.co%252F2JtEULybXo http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/30/kotkin_on_sub...) I mention this ad hominem tidbit because he always presents himself as a neutral observer, who happens to have brought a counterintuitive fact to light. It's tiresome.

41 points by acheron 11y ago

Warning: User 'newgeog_todbot' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 720000) query: SELECT CASE WHEN status=1 THEN 0 ELSE 1 END FROM access WHERE type = 'host' AND LOWER('96.89.0.129') LIKE LOWER(mask) ORDER BY status DESC LIMIT 0, 1 in /home/newgeog/public_html/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 172 Exposing your SQL queries in an exception on a public-facing website does not seem like a best practice.

mcantelon 11y ago
Their file paths too. Looks like they're running Drupal by the tables. EDIT: Yup, Drupal 5.7 seemingly (old, likely security issues). http://www.newgeography.com/CHANGELOG.txt http://www.newgeography.com/CHANGELOG.txt
dragonwriter 11y ago
From a UX POV, probably not. If this is a security complaint, well, its less exposed information (a strict subset) than if your app was open source, so I don't see it as particularly a problem.
- viraptor 11y ago
  Actually it's not a subset. Even if the app is open source, what you gain from this error is: username, installation path, resource limits. All of those add something you don't know from the code itself. All can be useful when trying (respectively) injections / bruteforce auth, path traversal / secrets access, denial of service. Also line numbers can help you identify the deployed version. Also optional table prefixes which are deployment-specific.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    You're right, I was wrong; leaving the grandparent post just for context for your response, otherwise I'd delete it.
- __z 11y ago
  Information leakage is considered a security vulnerability. https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Information_Leakage https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Information_Leakage

lholden 11y ago

Awesome! goes to her local mall... Oh wait. Its dying and has quite literally two businesses left in it. It's the only mall within an hour from where I live. The mall at the last place I lived closed down a couple years ago, also due to lack of business. I know my experience is of a very small sample...

acheron 11y ago
The failure of your local mall doesn't extend to the concept of "malls are dying". As the article says: To suggest malls are dead based on failure in failed places would be like suggesting that the manifest shortcomings of Baltimore or Buffalo means urban centers are not doing well. Like cities, not all malls are alike.

macandcheese 11y ago

The traditional closed-air mall is in fact dying, in most locales across the country. The transition to online shopping reduces the need for trips to the big box "anchor" stores, and as a result the smaller stores receive less foot traffic walking by, and in time are forced to close. This is very similar to how many American downtowns suffered in the 1970s when malls themselves were rising in popularity. Big box stores, seeking lower rents and closer quarters to one another (captive pocketbooks!), re-located to the more affordable fringes of town. As cities sprawled and families piled in their cars for shopping trips, independent locally-owned stores in medium-sized urban downtowns went out of business when the "anchor" stores packed up and moved to indoor malls. This lead to economic stagnation in the former "hearts" of small American cities, as the economic drivers moved from the geographic urban centers to further into the suburban sprawl. Quite a fascinating cycle. Large city center malls don't suffer the same fate, since they don't rely on the draw of a few anchor stores, and have a higher percentage of out of town visitors. What you are seeing emerge instead in most of suburban America is a new kind of open air, "commons" type of shopping destination, which provides a uniquely different experience than either a closed-air mall or online shopping can afford.

maratd 11y ago
> The traditional closed-air mall is in fact dying, in most locales across the country. I'm seeing the exact opposite. > The transition to online shopping reduces the need for trips to the big box "anchor" stores Most of the malls in this area have transitioned to entertainment destinations. Huge movie theaters, the stores are more showroom ... Tesla, Perch, Apple, etc., tons of restaurants. They're building a new mall nearby. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands Apparently the cost is 3.5 billion? The new mall will have an ice rink, amusement park, water park, concert hall, movie theater, and an indoor 12-story ski slope for skiing, snowboarding and tubing. Does that sound like something that's dying?
- macandcheese 11y ago
  Well, the Xanadu complex has been an interesting destination / planning story since the beginning. But that's also in a pretty unique area and, as you mentioned, is a far cry from what most small-town malls across America can offer (or afford to). The original draw at the Xanadu complex was an indoor ski ramp, if I remember. And, to take a stab at the price you mention, I recall a certain Atlantic City casino with a similar price tag that was opened a few years back, and closed very shortly after it opened.

pizzasynthesis 11y ago

Anyone have a mirror?

pizzasynthesis 11y ago

Anyone have a mirror?

jdonaldson 11y ago

There's a pretty close parallel here with American libraries. Conventional libraries suffered in the transition to online information/book sources. But, they've become a great community gathering place, especially for kids. I've seen evidence that malls are headed this direction with the increasing size of their indoor play areas, etc. The stores can come and go, but I think the folks running the mall properties will figure out what to do to stay a viable destination for large numbers of people.

bane 11y ago
I agree. The local libraries around me have been undergoing a steady transformation into resource-rich study centers for school-aged kids to college kids. On-line degree programs also seem to attract loads of people looking for quiet places with reference sections to study. My county system also has a robust e-book, book-on-tape on-line check-out system, community activities (kids Minecraft club, adult retrogaming Saturdays, book club guest speakers, puppet shows, etc.) The library system in my county is actually growing due to so many people using them. They've become true community centers and I personally find it a beautiful thing.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  I pity the poor people who simply want dead tree books to read.

bane 11y ago

I can think of half-a-dozen closed air malls within 30 minutes of each other where I live. Some of them are absolutely thriving, packed full of shoppers pretty much all day and on a race to expand space and amenities with the growing crowds. Others are near-dead ghost towns with something like 50% occupancy and entire wings blocked off because of a homeless/drug addict/gang problem. Most of the open-air "town center" style malls around me are also packed to the gills at all times. It's actually unpleasant to shop at them because they're so crowded, but they usually mix in outlet stores with regular stores and draw huge tourist crowds. I'm not sure what the trend is, not all that long ago I would say they're definitely - most certainly dying. But then one of the near-dead malls near me just changed hands, is undergoing major renovation and the numbers of stores and shoppers is growing. I think people like the social aspect of shopping, the walking around and browsing, touching things, trying them on. My wife orders lots of clothes on-line, but the smart stores let her return non-fitting clothes in-store, where she'll also check out what they're offering, try some things on and then buy more -- she's not the only one.

mturmon 11y ago

The author, Joel Kotkin, definitely has a preconceived notion about development, suburbia, and malls. (That being, he is a booster for all three, for example, see http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/30/kotkin_on_suburbia_he_forgot_about_prices.html?original_referrer=http%253A%252F%252Ft.co%252F2JtEULybXo http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/30/kotkin_on_sub...) I mention this ad hominem tidbit because he always presents himself as a neutral observer, who happens to have brought a counterintuitive fact to light. It's tiresome.