5 ms·

Why do people like this absolve themselves of all responsibility. You made the choice to take out all those loans and attend a liberal arts college, good for yo

Why do people like this absolve themselves of all responsibility. You made the choice to take out all those loans and attend a liberal arts college, good for you and now it is time for you to pay up. While you got to party in College on someone else's dime, I worked 80 hours per week and built my career. I'm sorry your choice didn't pan out the way you thought it would but I'm really getting tired of the idea that people should just be able to walk away from student loan debt because they believe it is "unfair."

d23 11y ago
The truth is these kids aren't really adults, and no one along the way is incentivized to stop them and say "hey, you may be making a really terrible decision here." Instead, everyone encourages them. English major? Great! No major? Even better! You have time to decide! $100k in debt? A degree is worth it! Thankfully I had programming skills to fall back on, but when you're 18 years old and you're surrounded by people giving you awful advice that could ruin your life, you may not be able to recognize it.
- MCRed 11y ago
  Absolutely true. But everyone still is responsible for their actions... even if they got bad advice. That to me is the definition of being an adult.
- restalis 11y ago
  "when you're 18 years old and you're surrounded by people giving you awful advice that could ruin your life, you may not be able to recognize it" I remember being 18 and I was terrified of loans, or of any kind of arrangements that could limit the options of my future! Advices, even ones that come from well-intended people, weren't worth much for me if they weren't supported by detailed plans in which I would end up OK. Receiving such insurance plans proved to be next to impossible, because and as you may presume, those who seriously suggest you mortgaging your life aren't the most forward-looking people! ...so no, I don't sympathize with that naive kid not thinking straight about his own future. I actually feel that this kind of practice represents one of our time's laws of natural selection.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  The point of being an adult is to be able to handle such influences. We treat them this way in loans, in other financial matters, in other contractual matters, and even in other areas (such as those relating to sex, where 'power difference' no longer applies once someone turns 18). About the only area where we do is with drinking age (in the US) and I find that to be quite unfair. I do think our concept of adulthood is flawed and has major issues, but society will never tolerate fixing it because it would restrict rights based on abilities and many of those who are currently taken advantage of will not willingly surrender the rights that allow them to be taken advantage of.
Frondo 11y ago
What? Why shouldn't people be able to walk away from any debt, and accept the consequences for that (like not being able to take out another student loan, bad credit for 7 years, harassing phone calls, etc)?
shakyor 11y ago
Well, to give a german perspective, over here it is considered unfair. To such an extend that tuition is basically free. The thing is we do not think one should indept himself to be able to achieve a degree, nor should he be forced to work to such an extend. I mean i admire you man, but looking carefully around you, you have got to admit that not everyone would be able to do this, would they? People over here got enraged when the goverment tried to introduce tuition fees of 1000 Euros a year. I actually think an economy profits if you make it easy for people to achieve an high education, and if you do not monitor them in the nature of the chosen field. And a society where you can do that and still have a normal and fullfilled life and being able to socially contribute to our society, that is the society i want to life in man. And while computer scientist are among the highest earner in germany, i gladly contribute my tax money to a society like this. I do however realize that cultures a different and another point of view is just as valid as mine. Just wanted to maybe offer another perspective :)
- restalis 11y ago
  I've explained this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9102059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9102059 - when you start considering the entire world as the marketplace for the fruits of education, this (taxpayer subsidized) model leaves you in a bad position.
  - shakyor 11y ago
    Well, actually its working out fine atm, thank you :) There even was a article linked here about USA student coming to germany for education this week. It said that most of them stay. Turns out if you spend like 5 of your formative years at one place, you kind of build roots there. So maybe an attractive education system can actually help securing talent. There even was a statement by a german official which roughly said that they are very happy with the current state of affairs, having the international exchange. If things get too out of hand, tuition fees for foreign students will be explored as an option though.
    - restalis 11y ago

d23 11y ago

The truth is these kids aren't really adults, and no one along the way is incentivized to stop them and say "hey, you may be making a really terrible decision here." Instead, everyone encourages them. English major? Great! No major? Even better! You have time to decide! $100k in debt? A degree is worth it! Thankfully I had programming skills to fall back on, but when you're 18 years old and you're surrounded by people giving you awful advice that could ruin your life, you may not be able to recognize it.

MCRed 11y ago
Absolutely true. But everyone still is responsible for their actions... even if they got bad advice. That to me is the definition of being an adult.
restalis 11y ago
"when you're 18 years old and you're surrounded by people giving you awful advice that could ruin your life, you may not be able to recognize it" I remember being 18 and I was terrified of loans, or of any kind of arrangements that could limit the options of my future! Advices, even ones that come from well-intended people, weren't worth much for me if they weren't supported by detailed plans in which I would end up OK. Receiving such insurance plans proved to be next to impossible, because and as you may presume, those who seriously suggest you mortgaging your life aren't the most forward-looking people! ...so no, I don't sympathize with that naive kid not thinking straight about his own future. I actually feel that this kind of practice represents one of our time's laws of natural selection.
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
The point of being an adult is to be able to handle such influences. We treat them this way in loans, in other financial matters, in other contractual matters, and even in other areas (such as those relating to sex, where 'power difference' no longer applies once someone turns 18). About the only area where we do is with drinking age (in the US) and I find that to be quite unfair. I do think our concept of adulthood is flawed and has major issues, but society will never tolerate fixing it because it would restrict rights based on abilities and many of those who are currently taken advantage of will not willingly surrender the rights that allow them to be taken advantage of.

Frondo 11y ago

What? Why shouldn't people be able to walk away from any debt, and accept the consequences for that (like not being able to take out another student loan, bad credit for 7 years, harassing phone calls, etc)?

shakyor 11y ago

Well, to give a german perspective, over here it is considered unfair. To such an extend that tuition is basically free. The thing is we do not think one should indept himself to be able to achieve a degree, nor should he be forced to work to such an extend. I mean i admire you man, but looking carefully around you, you have got to admit that not everyone would be able to do this, would they? People over here got enraged when the goverment tried to introduce tuition fees of 1000 Euros a year. I actually think an economy profits if you make it easy for people to achieve an high education, and if you do not monitor them in the nature of the chosen field. And a society where you can do that and still have a normal and fullfilled life and being able to socially contribute to our society, that is the society i want to life in man. And while computer scientist are among the highest earner in germany, i gladly contribute my tax money to a society like this. I do however realize that cultures a different and another point of view is just as valid as mine. Just wanted to maybe offer another perspective :)

restalis 11y ago
I've explained this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9102059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9102059 - when you start considering the entire world as the marketplace for the fruits of education, this (taxpayer subsidized) model leaves you in a bad position.
- shakyor 11y ago
  Well, actually its working out fine atm, thank you :) There even was a article linked here about USA student coming to germany for education this week. It said that most of them stay. Turns out if you spend like 5 of your formative years at one place, you kind of build roots there. So maybe an attractive education system can actually help securing talent. There even was a statement by a german official which roughly said that they are very happy with the current state of affairs, having the international exchange. If things get too out of hand, tuition fees for foreign students will be explored as an option though.
  - restalis 11y ago