5 ms·

The Himalayan tea train that's running out of steam

46 points by kposehn 11y ago

tn13 11y ago
I have spent a lot of time in Darjeeling on tea and the said train. Indian Railways is completely different beast. People might have hear a lot of e-commerce boom in India but Indian Railways online ticket booking system remains THE largest e-commerce system in India. Also their website is probably the shittiest e-commerce platform every built with less than 1% of transactions actually become successful. Check out what ails indian railways in this 10 part series by one of the latest consultant hired to turn around IR.[1] [1] http://swarajyamag.com/columns/railways-choice-and-competition-i/ http://swarajyamag.com/columns/railways-choice-and-competiti...
- smcl 11y ago
  This is an interesting article but why why why do people insist on hijacking a browser's scrolling functionality!?
- onion2k 11y ago
  Also their website is probably the shittiest e-commerce platform every built with less than 1% of transactions actually become successful. Is there a source for that percentage? I've found http://www.medianama.com/2011/09/223-irctc-reports-13-2m-transactions-for-august-2011-1-73-down/ http://www.medianama.com/2011/09/223-irctc-reports-13-2m-tra... that estimates 75% success on the banking side, but presumably that doesn't count failures in UX, validation, etc. I'd be really interested in reading more.
nickhalfasleep 11y ago
Railroads of this era (of any gauge), worked because at the time labor was so cheap, every 50-100 miles you could have people unload the cars and put them in another freight car, even a different gauge. Then people around the 1860's had the great idea that you could leave the items inside the freight car, and just hook it onto the other train if the gauge, couplers, and brakes all followed the same rules. Steam Locomotives have an odd attraction in that they were near the start of the industrial revolution, and have a visceral external motion that can be followed. How many keep operating on tourist lines as the number of people remember them remains to be seen. Even in the United States, while ridership remains high of tourist lines, fewer and fewer people have the skills to maintain a steam engine. Engines were once ordered out of a catalog, and parts were only a telegraph order away, but today it takes peculiar machinist skill to forge what were once mass produced castings.
- NeutronBoy 11y ago
  > How many keep operating on tourist lines as the number of people remember them remains to be seen. Even in the United States, while ridership remains high of tourist lines, fewer and fewer people have the skills to maintain a steam engine Puffing Billy [1] in Victoria, Australia, gets parts custom machined from a number of machine shops around the country, and even gets time 'donated' from Navy personnel who are trained and licensed to operate and maintain steam engines to supplement the full-time and volunteer staff it has. The entire line is now purely a tourist attraction. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffing_Billy_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffing_Billy_Railway
- pjc50 11y ago
  Narrow gauge wasn't just gratuitous incompatibility, it was for areas where there wasn't room for the normal gauge, like mines and mountains. Steam trains have a visceral appeal which has worked well as a tourist attraction for years. The number of people who remember them in operation has to be small; the last UK scheduled steam service was 47 years ago. So they've found a new audience. I'm optimistic about the maintenance given the emergence of "maker" culture. While it's a very different prospect to desktop CNC and does require more skill, it's not a magic lost art. There has even been a crowdfunded new locomotive built, "Tornado": http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=54 http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=art... Edit: this has led me to finding that a large fraction of the UK's preserved steam locomotives were kept more or less by accident, as they were less profitable to scrap than wagons and were therefore put at the back of the yard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodham_Brothers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodham_Brothers
trapped 11y ago
@OP Why is this post on HN? Please stop posting just to promote your agenda. This is not Reddit. Unfortunately I feel visiting HN is now lot of waste of time. I wish somebody from YC or HN does something about this soon.
- dang 11y ago
  I don't see any agenda here. It looks like an offbeat and interesting post of the kind that has always been on topic for HN [1]. We're grateful when people dig up these things! 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html
- kleer001 11y ago
  And what exactly is OP's agenda?
- kposehn 11y ago
  No agenda. Why would I have one?
  - kleer001 11y ago
    Well, other than sharing interesting stories, right?
    - kposehn 11y ago
      Wait! That's the one. I had forgotten.
PLenz 11y ago
The article fails to mention that the DHR is a UNESCO World Heritage Site - only one of two railways so honored. The DHR has actually tried to replace the Class Bs a few times since they were introduced. The original Class As were too flimsy for the job - and the Garret they ordered after the Class Bs was far too much of a locomotive for them - so the Class Bs remain, 100 years after being introduced. I wonder what if anything I build tech wise will survive 10 years - let alone 10 times that.
victoria1111 11y ago
DR Grace Ude IS THE ONLY SPELL CASTER TO TRUST!(greatspellofsolutiontemple@gmail.com) will be of great help to you. I never believed in spell casting but After 4 years of dating my hobby, he left me because I lost my womb . I felt like my life has come to an end, I almost committed suicide, i was emotionally down for a very long time. Thanks to the spell caster called Dr Grace whom i met online after my friend Tracy told me about how she helped her. She testified about how Dr Grace brought back her Ex in less than 3 days and reversed the effect of her lost womb, and at the end of her testimony she dropped Dr Grace's email address. I decided to give Dr Grace a try. I contacted her via email and explained my problems to her. In just 3 days, my Hubby came begging. We resolved our issues, and we are even happier than before, to God be the glory, am pregnant now, Dr Grace is really a gifted woman and i will not stop publishing her because she is a wonderful woman... Come to think of it I didn't pay much and all I have to do is send her little 250 dollars which she used in providing the materials used for the spell. Even my pastor said that God works mysteriously, that some women are used by God to help others. If you have a problem and you are looking for a real and genuine spell caster to solve all your problems for you. Contact Dr Grace anytime, she is the answer to your problems. Here's her contact (greatspellofsolutiontemple@gmail.com)
paulgerhardt 11y ago
::shakes Magic 8-ball:: Outlook not so good. A nearly identical situation has been unfolding over the past 10 years for a certain Taiwanese tea train.[1] Constructed in 1906, the Alishan Forest Railway has so many similarities it looks like a joke. Narrow ~2 ft gauge, ~87km in length, 2,000+ meters in vertical elevation gain serving high mountain tea farms, 6%+ grades, ~5 Z switchbacks, Class B Steam for special occasions, Diesels for regular days, in the running for World Heritage sites, and in terrible financial straights after a long fight to make it go private[2]. The line was government run for most of it's life, privatized in 2008, and returned to government control in 2011. It makes $2 million USD in revenue each year but costs $6.5 million to run and needs another $30 million in repairs to keep it going[3] (due to a landslide as well). That said, if you get a chance, go on a Wednesday. Shay's are fantastic and we're down to 5 of these kinds of lines throughout the world. I am really routing for Mr. Banerjee here but the odds seem stacked against him. Ultimately it was the installation of a two-lane highway with a plethora of shuttle services that made the Taiwan high mountain rail obsolete. If he can command a monopoly on the road as well, of course he will come out ahead. But from the sound of the taxi business in Ghum it looks like that battle is already lost. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alishan_Forest_Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alishan_Forest_Railway [2] http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2003502140 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2... [3] http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2003502140 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2...
- BuffaloBagel 11y ago
  Gauge is less than 1 meter.
  - paulgerhardt 11y ago
    Thank you, edited to say "ft" not meters. Alishan is 2 feet, 6 inches. Darjeeling is 2 feet. Both will rock you side to side like an armored car at a G7 protest.
- contingencies 11y ago
  IIRC the Taiwanese one is a Japanese railway. There's another one they installed during the invasion down to the North Korean border from Tonghua in Jilin province, China. (Then Japanese-occupied Manchuria) I believe that one is still operational - I took a ride on it about 2005/2006. The only other narrow gauge line in China is the late 19th century / very early 20th century French line from Haiphong in Vietnam to Kunming in Yunnan province, China. However, the Chinese government is just putting the finishing touches on a mega-direct (spare no mountain from tunnels, bridge every gorge) modern replacement... so this line is also about to close, circa right now.

46 points by kposehn 11y ago

tn13 11y ago

I have spent a lot of time in Darjeeling on tea and the said train. Indian Railways is completely different beast. People might have hear a lot of e-commerce boom in India but Indian Railways online ticket booking system remains THE largest e-commerce system in India. Also their website is probably the shittiest e-commerce platform every built with less than 1% of transactions actually become successful. Check out what ails indian railways in this 10 part series by one of the latest consultant hired to turn around IR.[1] [1] http://swarajyamag.com/columns/railways-choice-and-competition-i/ http://swarajyamag.com/columns/railways-choice-and-competiti...

smcl 11y ago
This is an interesting article but why why why do people insist on hijacking a browser's scrolling functionality!?
onion2k 11y ago
Also their website is probably the shittiest e-commerce platform every built with less than 1% of transactions actually become successful. Is there a source for that percentage? I've found http://www.medianama.com/2011/09/223-irctc-reports-13-2m-transactions-for-august-2011-1-73-down/ http://www.medianama.com/2011/09/223-irctc-reports-13-2m-tra... that estimates 75% success on the banking side, but presumably that doesn't count failures in UX, validation, etc. I'd be really interested in reading more.

nickhalfasleep 11y ago

Railroads of this era (of any gauge), worked because at the time labor was so cheap, every 50-100 miles you could have people unload the cars and put them in another freight car, even a different gauge. Then people around the 1860's had the great idea that you could leave the items inside the freight car, and just hook it onto the other train if the gauge, couplers, and brakes all followed the same rules. Steam Locomotives have an odd attraction in that they were near the start of the industrial revolution, and have a visceral external motion that can be followed. How many keep operating on tourist lines as the number of people remember them remains to be seen. Even in the United States, while ridership remains high of tourist lines, fewer and fewer people have the skills to maintain a steam engine. Engines were once ordered out of a catalog, and parts were only a telegraph order away, but today it takes peculiar machinist skill to forge what were once mass produced castings.

NeutronBoy 11y ago
> How many keep operating on tourist lines as the number of people remember them remains to be seen. Even in the United States, while ridership remains high of tourist lines, fewer and fewer people have the skills to maintain a steam engine Puffing Billy [1] in Victoria, Australia, gets parts custom machined from a number of machine shops around the country, and even gets time 'donated' from Navy personnel who are trained and licensed to operate and maintain steam engines to supplement the full-time and volunteer staff it has. The entire line is now purely a tourist attraction. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffing_Billy_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffing_Billy_Railway
pjc50 11y ago
Narrow gauge wasn't just gratuitous incompatibility, it was for areas where there wasn't room for the normal gauge, like mines and mountains. Steam trains have a visceral appeal which has worked well as a tourist attraction for years. The number of people who remember them in operation has to be small; the last UK scheduled steam service was 47 years ago. So they've found a new audience. I'm optimistic about the maintenance given the emergence of "maker" culture. While it's a very different prospect to desktop CNC and does require more skill, it's not a magic lost art. There has even been a crowdfunded new locomotive built, "Tornado": http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=54 http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=art... Edit: this has led me to finding that a large fraction of the UK's preserved steam locomotives were kept more or less by accident, as they were less profitable to scrap than wagons and were therefore put at the back of the yard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodham_Brothers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodham_Brothers

trapped 11y ago

@OP Why is this post on HN? Please stop posting just to promote your agenda. This is not Reddit. Unfortunately I feel visiting HN is now lot of waste of time. I wish somebody from YC or HN does something about this soon.

dang 11y ago
I don't see any agenda here. It looks like an offbeat and interesting post of the kind that has always been on topic for HN [1]. We're grateful when people dig up these things! 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html
kleer001 11y ago
And what exactly is OP's agenda?
kposehn 11y ago
No agenda. Why would I have one?
- kleer001 11y ago
  Well, other than sharing interesting stories, right?
  - kposehn 11y ago
    Wait! That's the one. I had forgotten.

PLenz 11y ago

The article fails to mention that the DHR is a UNESCO World Heritage Site - only one of two railways so honored. The DHR has actually tried to replace the Class Bs a few times since they were introduced. The original Class As were too flimsy for the job - and the Garret they ordered after the Class Bs was far too much of a locomotive for them - so the Class Bs remain, 100 years after being introduced. I wonder what if anything I build tech wise will survive 10 years - let alone 10 times that.

victoria1111 11y ago

DR Grace Ude IS THE ONLY SPELL CASTER TO TRUST!(greatspellofsolutiontemple@gmail.com) will be of great help to you. I never believed in spell casting but After 4 years of dating my hobby, he left me because I lost my womb . I felt like my life has come to an end, I almost committed suicide, i was emotionally down for a very long time. Thanks to the spell caster called Dr Grace whom i met online after my friend Tracy told me about how she helped her. She testified about how Dr Grace brought back her Ex in less than 3 days and reversed the effect of her lost womb, and at the end of her testimony she dropped Dr Grace's email address. I decided to give Dr Grace a try. I contacted her via email and explained my problems to her. In just 3 days, my Hubby came begging. We resolved our issues, and we are even happier than before, to God be the glory, am pregnant now, Dr Grace is really a gifted woman and i will not stop publishing her because she is a wonderful woman... Come to think of it I didn't pay much and all I have to do is send her little 250 dollars which she used in providing the materials used for the spell. Even my pastor said that God works mysteriously, that some women are used by God to help others. If you have a problem and you are looking for a real and genuine spell caster to solve all your problems for you. Contact Dr Grace anytime, she is the answer to your problems. Here's her contact (greatspellofsolutiontemple@gmail.com)

paulgerhardt 11y ago

::shakes Magic 8-ball:: Outlook not so good. A nearly identical situation has been unfolding over the past 10 years for a certain Taiwanese tea train.[1] Constructed in 1906, the Alishan Forest Railway has so many similarities it looks like a joke. Narrow ~2 ft gauge, ~87km in length, 2,000+ meters in vertical elevation gain serving high mountain tea farms, 6%+ grades, ~5 Z switchbacks, Class B Steam for special occasions, Diesels for regular days, in the running for World Heritage sites, and in terrible financial straights after a long fight to make it go private[2]. The line was government run for most of it's life, privatized in 2008, and returned to government control in 2011. It makes $2 million USD in revenue each year but costs $6.5 million to run and needs another $30 million in repairs to keep it going[3] (due to a landslide as well). That said, if you get a chance, go on a Wednesday. Shay's are fantastic and we're down to 5 of these kinds of lines throughout the world. I am really routing for Mr. Banerjee here but the odds seem stacked against him. Ultimately it was the installation of a two-lane highway with a plethora of shuttle services that made the Taiwan high mountain rail obsolete. If he can command a monopoly on the road as well, of course he will come out ahead. But from the sound of the taxi business in Ghum it looks like that battle is already lost. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alishan_Forest_Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alishan_Forest_Railway [2] http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2003502140 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2... [3] http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2003502140 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/05/01/2...

BuffaloBagel 11y ago
Gauge is less than 1 meter.
- paulgerhardt 11y ago
  Thank you, edited to say "ft" not meters. Alishan is 2 feet, 6 inches. Darjeeling is 2 feet. Both will rock you side to side like an armored car at a G7 protest.
contingencies 11y ago
IIRC the Taiwanese one is a Japanese railway. There's another one they installed during the invasion down to the North Korean border from Tonghua in Jilin province, China. (Then Japanese-occupied Manchuria) I believe that one is still operational - I took a ride on it about 2005/2006. The only other narrow gauge line in China is the late 19th century / very early 20th century French line from Haiphong in Vietnam to Kunming in Yunnan province, China. However, the Chinese government is just putting the finishing touches on a mega-direct (spare no mountain from tunnels, bridge every gorge) modern replacement... so this line is also about to close, circa right now.