5 ms·

This places Swift right along Golang and Rust as the new interesting language.

by gtrubetskoy 11y ago

kh_hk 11y ago
I wonder what this will mean for Qt and QML.
- rhodysurf 11y ago
  Why? Swift is a language and Qt is GUI framework
  - kh_hk 11y ago
    QML is akin to swift. Let's say, QML is to Qt as Swift is to Obj-C + native GUI libraries. The purpose and syntax of QML and Swift are similar, too. PS: Qt is not only a GUI framework. It's a cross platform C++ framework.
    - htns 11y ago
      QML is a declarative UI markup language with javascript scripting. Are there really any parallels to Swift? I haven't looked at it in any detail before.
      - kh_hk 11y ago
        I hadn't looked much into Swift either, thought it was meant to be a declarative layer around Obj-C, my bad. I would say though that QML + javascript fills a similar purpose as Swift.
    - rhodysurf 11y ago
      True that Qt is a full C++ framework (my bad on that, i should know i use it everyday), but swift is nothing like QML. QML is just a markup language that is interpreted by an engine written in C++, swift is a whole programming language that is compiled. It would be more fitting to compare C++ and swift than swift and Qt.
      - kh_hk 11y ago
        Yep, sorry about that. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9682654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9682654
TillE 11y ago
I think Rust fills a slightly different niche with its safety-first principle, but Swift should eventually be a really attractive choice for anyone building cross-platform stuff that also needs to run on iOS.
- melling 11y ago
  Swift has a huge advantage in that it's got a bigger community. It doesn't matter which language is the best. On StackOverFlow, for example, Swift has many more questions asked and answered. I've catalogued over 1000 blogs in the first year alone. http://www.h4labs.com/dev/ios/swift.html http://www.h4labs.com/dev/ios/swift.html All this makes it much easier to learn Swift in a short period of time.
  - honest_joe 11y ago
    That's so obvious. Swift gives you an ability to create something that can generate you $$$ very quickly. Rust on the other hand...
    - melling 11y ago
      The ecosystem is far more important than the language. Swift has a chance to rival Java in adoption.
      - thebouv 11y ago
        What? Do you realize how far Java reaches into the enterprise? And with Swift's focus still being around the walled garden of iOS/OSX development, even with the open sourcing there are many more "IFs" to achieve before Swift rivals Java in adoption. Don't get me wrong. I don't use Java and I have made apps for iOS (though not with Swift yet unfortunately). I like Swift and intend on trying it. But rivaling Java? Certainly no time soon.
        melling 11y ago
        Yes, I've done Java in the enterprise. It's a 20 year old language and there's an estimated 9 million Java developers. Swift is only one1 but with open source and cross-platform ability (Microsoft will port to Windows), I think we have several million Swift developers with 5 years. [Update] 30 -> 20
notsony 11y ago
Not really. Depends on whether or not Swift's standard libraries and core APIs are all open-sourced.
- pat2man 11y ago
  Tim Cook said they would be open sourcing the standard libraries.
  - prewett 11y ago
    I'm assuming he's not talking about the GUI libraries, which would make it considerably less interesting. As far as I know C/C++ is still the only (free) way to write cross-platform mobile apps. If I can compile my apps on iOS and have them run on Android, then I am definitely interested.
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  Don't most swift apps also still drop to Obj-C? That will make them less portable.
kodablah 11y ago
I toyed with implementing Swift on the JVM (which is very doable by the way). The problem I've found with Swift is the minute size of the standard library. This has forced a large amount of Swift libraries to make calls to Objective-C/Cocoa classes libraries which makes it very non-portable. I haven't checked any time recently, but if a large, stable, swift-specific stdlib were to emerge then I believe it could definitely rival those other languages. Until then, most libraries will probably be Apple/OSX specific (not to mention Windows concerns).
- desdiv 11y ago
  >I toyed with implementing Swift on the JVM (which is very doable by the way). It's already been done :D https://leverich.github.io/swiftislikescala/ https://leverich.github.io/swiftislikescala/
- tootie 11y ago
  I'm curious about how memory management would work. Swift has rejected garbage collection in favor of ARC.
  - kodablah 11y ago
    I was going to make it use GC and make ARC-specific constructs a noop (I hadn't decided whether I wanted "weak" to be a JVM WeakReference or not, I did not get that far).

This places Swift right along Golang and Rust as the new interesting language.

kh_hk 11y ago

I wonder what this will mean for Qt and QML.

rhodysurf 11y ago
Why? Swift is a language and Qt is GUI framework
- kh_hk 11y ago
  QML is akin to swift. Let's say, QML is to Qt as Swift is to Obj-C + native GUI libraries. The purpose and syntax of QML and Swift are similar, too. PS: Qt is not only a GUI framework. It's a cross platform C++ framework.
  - htns 11y ago
    QML is a declarative UI markup language with javascript scripting. Are there really any parallels to Swift? I haven't looked at it in any detail before.
    - kh_hk 11y ago
      I hadn't looked much into Swift either, thought it was meant to be a declarative layer around Obj-C, my bad. I would say though that QML + javascript fills a similar purpose as Swift.
  - rhodysurf 11y ago
    True that Qt is a full C++ framework (my bad on that, i should know i use it everyday), but swift is nothing like QML. QML is just a markup language that is interpreted by an engine written in C++, swift is a whole programming language that is compiled. It would be more fitting to compare C++ and swift than swift and Qt.
    - kh_hk 11y ago
      Yep, sorry about that. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9682654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9682654

TillE 11y ago

I think Rust fills a slightly different niche with its safety-first principle, but Swift should eventually be a really attractive choice for anyone building cross-platform stuff that also needs to run on iOS.

melling 11y ago
Swift has a huge advantage in that it's got a bigger community. It doesn't matter which language is the best. On StackOverFlow, for example, Swift has many more questions asked and answered. I've catalogued over 1000 blogs in the first year alone. http://www.h4labs.com/dev/ios/swift.html http://www.h4labs.com/dev/ios/swift.html All this makes it much easier to learn Swift in a short period of time.
- honest_joe 11y ago
  That's so obvious. Swift gives you an ability to create something that can generate you $$$ very quickly. Rust on the other hand...
  - melling 11y ago
    The ecosystem is far more important than the language. Swift has a chance to rival Java in adoption.
    - thebouv 11y ago
      What? Do you realize how far Java reaches into the enterprise? And with Swift's focus still being around the walled garden of iOS/OSX development, even with the open sourcing there are many more "IFs" to achieve before Swift rivals Java in adoption. Don't get me wrong. I don't use Java and I have made apps for iOS (though not with Swift yet unfortunately). I like Swift and intend on trying it. But rivaling Java? Certainly no time soon.
      - melling 11y ago
        Yes, I've done Java in the enterprise. It's a 20 year old language and there's an estimated 9 million Java developers. Swift is only one1 but with open source and cross-platform ability (Microsoft will port to Windows), I think we have several million Swift developers with 5 years. [Update] 30 -> 20

notsony 11y ago

Not really. Depends on whether or not Swift's standard libraries and core APIs are all open-sourced.

pat2man 11y ago
Tim Cook said they would be open sourcing the standard libraries.
- prewett 11y ago
  I'm assuming he's not talking about the GUI libraries, which would make it considerably less interesting. As far as I know C/C++ is still the only (free) way to write cross-platform mobile apps. If I can compile my apps on iOS and have them run on Android, then I am definitely interested.
wlesieutre 11y ago
Don't most swift apps also still drop to Obj-C? That will make them less portable.

kodablah 11y ago

I toyed with implementing Swift on the JVM (which is very doable by the way). The problem I've found with Swift is the minute size of the standard library. This has forced a large amount of Swift libraries to make calls to Objective-C/Cocoa classes libraries which makes it very non-portable. I haven't checked any time recently, but if a large, stable, swift-specific stdlib were to emerge then I believe it could definitely rival those other languages. Until then, most libraries will probably be Apple/OSX specific (not to mention Windows concerns).

desdiv 11y ago
>I toyed with implementing Swift on the JVM (which is very doable by the way). It's already been done :D https://leverich.github.io/swiftislikescala/ https://leverich.github.io/swiftislikescala/
tootie 11y ago
I'm curious about how memory management would work. Swift has rejected garbage collection in favor of ARC.
- kodablah 11y ago
  I was going to make it use GC and make ARC-specific constructs a noop (I hadn't decided whether I wanted "weak" to be a JVM WeakReference or not, I did not get that far).