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> This kind of behaviour makes me really really sorry to be > an Apple customer :/ Well, don't be then. I don't get this cry about walled gardens. Feel free t

> This kind of behaviour makes me really really sorry to be > an Apple customer :/ Well, don't be then. I don't get this cry about walled gardens. Feel free to roam in the jungle if you don't like them.

izacus 11y ago
Well, I already do own a Mac and I actually like using it. Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed and complain about having 3D performance crippled on the OS X as opposed to Windows? Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed about having to reboot my machine constantly to get the most of 3D performance? To borrow your words - I don't get why are you criticising me when I express opinion about a one aspect of the product. OS X / Mac combination isn't just 3D - I do like other aspects of the combination that I will not get on other machines. I don't get why would you like to take away my right to express opinion about scummy Apple practices.
- coldtea 11y ago
  3D performance for what? Are you a gamer?
  - Artemis2 11y ago
    For a computer that costs thousands of dollars. Is that too much to ask that Apple make proper drivers for the one new model of discrete graphics cards they ship every year?
    - justsid 11y ago
      I’ve talked about this with one of the guys at Apple who writes graphics drivers. Basically vendors give them their Windows drivers and they change them to work against IOKit. No idea what my point is, besides, “it’s probably not that easy”. But they are on the Vulkan team and probably now have experience providing a similar API, so I’m hopeful the Macs get great adoption for Vulkan.
      - Artemis2 11y ago
        It's surely not easy, but that's still an important task. Hopefully El Capitan will also optimize these.
      - izacus 11y ago
        Remember that for example nVidia uses exactly the same codebase for Windows and Linux, and Linux gets same performance as Windows with OpenGL.
  - jgh 11y ago
    OSX renders UI with OpenGL - and now in El Capitan it will render using Metal. The performance overhead affects more than just games.
gtf21 11y ago
> Well, don't be then. I don't get this cry about walled gardens. Feel free to roam in the jungle if you don't like them. I really don't get why people pull this "if you don't like it, leave" argument (in everything from politics to tech). There are lots of reasons someone might want to use a mac (I do), one is perfectly entitled to complain about aspects of Apple's approach to try to make the argument for change.
- zamalek 11y ago
  I think it originates from misunderstanding what a walled garden is and why they are great for customer retention. The whole point of walled garden is locking people in. Avoiding a walled garden can only happen before you invest in the garden. Once you have spent money in iTunes or the store (or e.g. even have a long list of contacts in some IM client) you are stuck unless you are happy to lose those purchases/data.
  - wlesieutre 11y ago
    Former Mac / iOS user (since pre-G3 Macs and the iPod touch), it's not that hard to switch. My main devices are now a Surface Pro and a Z3 Compact. With how much data has moved off of devices, losing data isn't a huge concern anymore. My mail, calendar, photos, etc. were already hosted elsewhere on services with cross platform support. Cost of replacing apps is the bigger issue, and for me it worked out to something under $50. That was cheaper than the (~$200) cost premium of a 64 GB iPhone over the Z3C and a microSD card. EDIT: If you've tied yourself into HomeKit or Apple's photo system, things would be worse. Maybe I'm atypical there?
  - Dain42 11y ago
    I had this experience leaving the Apple walled garden about six years ago and moving on to Ubuntu (with Windows for gaming purposes in free time). I just kind of ate the costs. I suppose technically I still have access to my video content purchased on iTunes, but I'd have to boot to Windows or use a VM to get to it. My rationale was kind of along the lines of avoiding the sunk cost fallacy: just because I'd been invested in the Apple ecosystem for 20-some years and buying iTunes stuff for more than half a decade didn't mean that I should just keep doing that when I was unhappy with other things. But that cost-benefit calculus might work out differently for other people. The lock-in is very real if you don't want to lose your stuff. It's a reason that I still refuse to buy movies from any online service. Only discs that I can rip or DRM free downloads for me from now on, so I don't end up walled-in again. Eventually I was able to rescue all my protected music at least by paying what ammounted to a $25 ransom for a year of iTunes Match (or whatever they call it now) so I could download DRM free versions of the music I'd already paid for.
happyscrappy 11y ago
Yeah, feel free to sideload sketchy apps to your Android if you have no qualms being pwned. There is a reason Google recommends only Play Store downloads and it is not just because they want to lock you in their garden.
- bashinator 11y ago
  I wonder if you're getting downvoted because there's been plenty of malware in the Google Play Store?

izacus 11y ago

Well, I already do own a Mac and I actually like using it. Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed and complain about having 3D performance crippled on the OS X as opposed to Windows? Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed about having to reboot my machine constantly to get the most of 3D performance? To borrow your words - I don't get why are you criticising me when I express opinion about a one aspect of the product. OS X / Mac combination isn't just 3D - I do like other aspects of the combination that I will not get on other machines. I don't get why would you like to take away my right to express opinion about scummy Apple practices.

coldtea 11y ago
3D performance for what? Are you a gamer?
- Artemis2 11y ago
  For a computer that costs thousands of dollars. Is that too much to ask that Apple make proper drivers for the one new model of discrete graphics cards they ship every year?
  - justsid 11y ago
    I’ve talked about this with one of the guys at Apple who writes graphics drivers. Basically vendors give them their Windows drivers and they change them to work against IOKit. No idea what my point is, besides, “it’s probably not that easy”. But they are on the Vulkan team and probably now have experience providing a similar API, so I’m hopeful the Macs get great adoption for Vulkan.
    - Artemis2 11y ago
      It's surely not easy, but that's still an important task. Hopefully El Capitan will also optimize these.
    - izacus 11y ago
      Remember that for example nVidia uses exactly the same codebase for Windows and Linux, and Linux gets same performance as Windows with OpenGL.
- jgh 11y ago
  OSX renders UI with OpenGL - and now in El Capitan it will render using Metal. The performance overhead affects more than just games.

gtf21 11y ago

> Well, don't be then. I don't get this cry about walled gardens. Feel free to roam in the jungle if you don't like them. I really don't get why people pull this "if you don't like it, leave" argument (in everything from politics to tech). There are lots of reasons someone might want to use a mac (I do), one is perfectly entitled to complain about aspects of Apple's approach to try to make the argument for change.

zamalek 11y ago
I think it originates from misunderstanding what a walled garden is and why they are great for customer retention. The whole point of walled garden is locking people in. Avoiding a walled garden can only happen before you invest in the garden. Once you have spent money in iTunes or the store (or e.g. even have a long list of contacts in some IM client) you are stuck unless you are happy to lose those purchases/data.
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  Former Mac / iOS user (since pre-G3 Macs and the iPod touch), it's not that hard to switch. My main devices are now a Surface Pro and a Z3 Compact. With how much data has moved off of devices, losing data isn't a huge concern anymore. My mail, calendar, photos, etc. were already hosted elsewhere on services with cross platform support. Cost of replacing apps is the bigger issue, and for me it worked out to something under $50. That was cheaper than the (~$200) cost premium of a 64 GB iPhone over the Z3C and a microSD card. EDIT: If you've tied yourself into HomeKit or Apple's photo system, things would be worse. Maybe I'm atypical there?
- Dain42 11y ago
  I had this experience leaving the Apple walled garden about six years ago and moving on to Ubuntu (with Windows for gaming purposes in free time). I just kind of ate the costs. I suppose technically I still have access to my video content purchased on iTunes, but I'd have to boot to Windows or use a VM to get to it. My rationale was kind of along the lines of avoiding the sunk cost fallacy: just because I'd been invested in the Apple ecosystem for 20-some years and buying iTunes stuff for more than half a decade didn't mean that I should just keep doing that when I was unhappy with other things. But that cost-benefit calculus might work out differently for other people. The lock-in is very real if you don't want to lose your stuff. It's a reason that I still refuse to buy movies from any online service. Only discs that I can rip or DRM free downloads for me from now on, so I don't end up walled-in again. Eventually I was able to rescue all my protected music at least by paying what ammounted to a $25 ransom for a year of iTunes Match (or whatever they call it now) so I could download DRM free versions of the music I'd already paid for.

happyscrappy 11y ago

Yeah, feel free to sideload sketchy apps to your Android if you have no qualms being pwned. There is a reason Google recommends only Play Store downloads and it is not just because they want to lock you in their garden.

bashinator 11y ago
I wonder if you're getting downvoted because there's been plenty of malware in the Google Play Store?