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> Google Ideas builds products to support free expression and access to information for people who need it most — those facing violence and harassment. > Googl

by jonknee 11y ago

> Google Ideas builds products to support free expression and access to information for people who need it most — those facing violence and harassment. > Google Ideas is a team of engineers, researchers and geopolitical experts who build products to support free expression and access to information, especially in repressive societies. We focus on the problems faced by people who live in unstable, isolated, or oppressive environments, including the billions of people who are coming online for the first time. > With the right tools, we can make the internet more free and open. Many of us take the internet for granted, but for human rights activists, journalists, and artists living under censorship, a free and open internet can be a matter of life and death.

thieving_magpie 11y ago
Google is such a strange company. Don't they participate in the suppression of free expression in places like China, justifying it as a cost of doing business? edit: in an effort to not spread bad information, I'd like to retract my statement. It was based on outdated information.
- joeyspn 11y ago
  "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." Groucho Marx
- scrollaway 11y ago
  > justifying it as a cost of doing business They're justifying it as "it's better than nothing at all". Take from that what you will but let's get the facts right.
- kbenson 11y ago
  This reality of the censorship appears to be well documented[1], and I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Here's the TL;DR Google filtered terms the Chinese government required (by law), but did so by returning results saying that some items were filtered out specifically so users would know their results were filtered. Google never gave any information on who searched specific terms, but after some attacks on their servers in an apparent attempt to get this information, Google announced they would no longer filter searches for China. Talks on how to accomplish this broke down, and Google redirected their China site to Hong Kong, which has no censorship restrictions, but the Great Firewall seems to be filtering results. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google#China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google#China
  - thieving_magpie 11y ago
    Good information. It's clear I'm outdated and off-base here. I didn't realize they had such backbone.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - on_and_off 11y ago
      @lifeisstillgood IIRC all this happened way before Snowden.
      - nostrademons 11y ago
        This was in 2010, Snowden happened in 2013.
  - moey 11y ago
    They stopped the redirect[1] and now just show a link to Google Hong Kong. They also removed the warning that the user's search results were being filtered [2]. To the best of my knowledge, the current status: User visits Google China - http://google.cn http://google.cn - This is a hyperlink to Google Hong Kong on the front page - IF user searches via Google.cn, the search results will be filtered by China not self-censored by Google. They will NOT be presented with a warning anymore. - IF user searches via Google.hk, from mainland china, the same thing will happen and the results will still be filtered. [3] At this point, I don't believe the link to .hk Google serves as much use as it does a political statement. [1] "Google stops Hong Kong auto-redirect as China plays hardball" http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/google-tweaks-china-to-hong-kong-redirect-same-results.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/google-tweak... [2] "Google's dropped anti-censorship warning marks quiet defeat in China" http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jan/04/google-defeat-china-censorship-battle http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jan/04/google-def... [3] "China censors searches on Google's Hong Kong-based search engine" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/23/AR2010032301250.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03...
- digibo 11y ago
  It is either complying with the censorship or being entirely banned from the country. Perhaps by keeping presence they may help slowly change things. I know it's entirely a business decision, but simply saying "Ok, forget about China" won't help either.
- baldfat 11y ago
  Since Google Pulled out of China and moved to Hong Kong in 2010 I think they really were trying to figure out what the right thing to do. http://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-201... So Google has tried almost everything and has broken into China's Great Firewall. They even were warning users if the content was politically controversial. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
jackmaney 11y ago
Okay, so... 1. Google builds stuff that lets lots of people have access to information. Already knew that. 2. Google has a team of engineers that build stuff to let lots of people have access to information, including people in developing countries or countries that have restricted internet access. Yep, knew that, too. 3. An open internet is good. Check. ....So what? At the risk of sounding like a marketing douchebag, where's the call to action here? Is this supposed to be some kind of new Google product? Or is it just a bunch of PR?
- themeek 11y ago
  The United States Department of Defense is doubling down on investment in the tech sector for national security and strategic purposes. One of these investments is into something called "Civil Society Apps" - applications that support exporting American culture and values to certain areas of the world. The United States benefits by being the center of entertainment (Hollywood), for example, and by having US Social Networking sites filter the content according to American values and ideals across the world. This is a form of 'soft power'. The DoD's investment in the tech sector, while also focusing on defensive and offensive cyber capabilities, is putting money into culture export apps. While some of this work is already done, the governments and civil societies and organizations of other countries do not always like this export, and the US has been known to 'weaponize' some of the networks to stir revolution, dissent, etc (e.g. ZunZuneo). Google Shield is a project whereby these cultural export apps can be given additional protection.
  - indians_pro 11y ago
    i can't thank you enough for making this comment and the above one ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9681482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9681482 ). people, especially tech/culturally/bullshit literate americans need to focus and _see_ what is happening. international citizens, especially from certain parts of the world, eat whatever the US feeds them, but i've noticed that americans tend to be _very_ good at spotting bs when they are paying attention. the only thing needed is for their hearts to be in the right place. that will determine whether they decide to play along or help. now, i beg the above user, or someone with an equally clear and analytical mind, to take a long and hard look at india, and what's happening with the urbanised (aka westernized) and so called sophisticated society of india, especially the youth. key words : whatsapp, instagram, mass message forwarding, hollywood, atheism, gender equality, sexual liberation, 'jesus christ', delhi rape, us kashmir india map vs indian govt india map; eventually you'll spot the pattern. we need help from the outside, urgently. read on the internet.org initiative. google is not alone. they are out to get everyone. also, (imo) anyone upvoting, commenting, and (probably) even viewing this page is on a list, and their preferences and moral leanings are being analysed. i can't be sure if that is individually, or in a grouping of data. so comment and upvote with care, and try to ensure anonymity. - an international student with lots of american friends, who loves weed, flirts with other drugs, and tries to keep an open mind ps - best of luck to us all and thank you if you sincerely read the whole message
darklajid 11y ago
From the company formerly known for requiring 'real names'™ for its shove-it-down-your-throat social network product. I'd be wary. I'm sure there's lots of technical talent at Google, I'm sure they do interesting things. But they are not white knights, protecting the internet. And if I either would be afraid of harassment (see previous policy above) or a journalist with sources to protect, I'd look for more .. independent support, I guess.

by jonknee 11y ago

thieving_magpie 11y ago

Google is such a strange company. Don't they participate in the suppression of free expression in places like China, justifying it as a cost of doing business? edit: in an effort to not spread bad information, I'd like to retract my statement. It was based on outdated information.

joeyspn 11y ago
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." Groucho Marx
scrollaway 11y ago
> justifying it as a cost of doing business They're justifying it as "it's better than nothing at all". Take from that what you will but let's get the facts right.
kbenson 11y ago
This reality of the censorship appears to be well documented[1], and I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Here's the TL;DR Google filtered terms the Chinese government required (by law), but did so by returning results saying that some items were filtered out specifically so users would know their results were filtered. Google never gave any information on who searched specific terms, but after some attacks on their servers in an apparent attempt to get this information, Google announced they would no longer filter searches for China. Talks on how to accomplish this broke down, and Google redirected their China site to Hong Kong, which has no censorship restrictions, but the Great Firewall seems to be filtering results. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google#China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google#China
- thieving_magpie 11y ago
  Good information. It's clear I'm outdated and off-base here. I didn't realize they had such backbone.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - on_and_off 11y ago
    @lifeisstillgood IIRC all this happened way before Snowden.
    - nostrademons 11y ago
      This was in 2010, Snowden happened in 2013.
- moey 11y ago
  They stopped the redirect[1] and now just show a link to Google Hong Kong. They also removed the warning that the user's search results were being filtered [2]. To the best of my knowledge, the current status: User visits Google China - http://google.cn http://google.cn - This is a hyperlink to Google Hong Kong on the front page - IF user searches via Google.cn, the search results will be filtered by China not self-censored by Google. They will NOT be presented with a warning anymore. - IF user searches via Google.hk, from mainland china, the same thing will happen and the results will still be filtered. [3] At this point, I don't believe the link to .hk Google serves as much use as it does a political statement. [1] "Google stops Hong Kong auto-redirect as China plays hardball" http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/google-tweaks-china-to-hong-kong-redirect-same-results.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/google-tweak... [2] "Google's dropped anti-censorship warning marks quiet defeat in China" http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jan/04/google-defeat-china-censorship-battle http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jan/04/google-def... [3] "China censors searches on Google's Hong Kong-based search engine" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/23/AR2010032301250.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03...
digibo 11y ago
It is either complying with the censorship or being entirely banned from the country. Perhaps by keeping presence they may help slowly change things. I know it's entirely a business decision, but simply saying "Ok, forget about China" won't help either.
baldfat 11y ago
Since Google Pulled out of China and moved to Hong Kong in 2010 I think they really were trying to figure out what the right thing to do. http://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-201... So Google has tried almost everything and has broken into China's Great Firewall. They even were warning users if the content was politically controversial. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China

jackmaney 11y ago

Okay, so... 1. Google builds stuff that lets lots of people have access to information. Already knew that. 2. Google has a team of engineers that build stuff to let lots of people have access to information, including people in developing countries or countries that have restricted internet access. Yep, knew that, too. 3. An open internet is good. Check. ....So what? At the risk of sounding like a marketing douchebag, where's the call to action here? Is this supposed to be some kind of new Google product? Or is it just a bunch of PR?

themeek 11y ago
The United States Department of Defense is doubling down on investment in the tech sector for national security and strategic purposes. One of these investments is into something called "Civil Society Apps" - applications that support exporting American culture and values to certain areas of the world. The United States benefits by being the center of entertainment (Hollywood), for example, and by having US Social Networking sites filter the content according to American values and ideals across the world. This is a form of 'soft power'. The DoD's investment in the tech sector, while also focusing on defensive and offensive cyber capabilities, is putting money into culture export apps. While some of this work is already done, the governments and civil societies and organizations of other countries do not always like this export, and the US has been known to 'weaponize' some of the networks to stir revolution, dissent, etc (e.g. ZunZuneo). Google Shield is a project whereby these cultural export apps can be given additional protection.
- indians_pro 11y ago
  i can't thank you enough for making this comment and the above one ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9681482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9681482 ). people, especially tech/culturally/bullshit literate americans need to focus and _see_ what is happening. international citizens, especially from certain parts of the world, eat whatever the US feeds them, but i've noticed that americans tend to be _very_ good at spotting bs when they are paying attention. the only thing needed is for their hearts to be in the right place. that will determine whether they decide to play along or help. now, i beg the above user, or someone with an equally clear and analytical mind, to take a long and hard look at india, and what's happening with the urbanised (aka westernized) and so called sophisticated society of india, especially the youth. key words : whatsapp, instagram, mass message forwarding, hollywood, atheism, gender equality, sexual liberation, 'jesus christ', delhi rape, us kashmir india map vs indian govt india map; eventually you'll spot the pattern. we need help from the outside, urgently. read on the internet.org initiative. google is not alone. they are out to get everyone. also, (imo) anyone upvoting, commenting, and (probably) even viewing this page is on a list, and their preferences and moral leanings are being analysed. i can't be sure if that is individually, or in a grouping of data. so comment and upvote with care, and try to ensure anonymity. - an international student with lots of american friends, who loves weed, flirts with other drugs, and tries to keep an open mind ps - best of luck to us all and thank you if you sincerely read the whole message

darklajid 11y ago

From the company formerly known for requiring 'real names'™ for its shove-it-down-your-throat social network product. I'd be wary. I'm sure there's lots of technical talent at Google, I'm sure they do interesting things. But they are not white knights, protecting the internet. And if I either would be afraid of harassment (see previous policy above) or a journalist with sources to protect, I'd look for more .. independent support, I guess.