5 ms·

> If you're a healthy adult male under 40, 1 hour a day for 3 days a week will get you to "pick up 400 pounds off the floor with relative ease" within a year.

by jonahx 11y ago

> If you're a healthy adult male under 40, 1 hour a day for 3 days a week will get you to "pick up 400 pounds off the floor with relative ease" within a year. I hate to nitpick because I share your enthusiasm, but this claim is not true across the board. Plenty of healthy males won't be able to come close to building that kind of strength in a year. It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics.

vinceguidry 11y ago
> It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics. It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not. Mark Rippletoe's Starting Strength program, administered by a cautious enough trainer, will get most anyone of those characteristics, healthy adult male under 40, there. It's what Mark does for a living. It may be uncomfortable eating several thousand calories a day if you're skinny, but you can't blame the program for your failure to do that. I did starting Strength for about 4 months before I got injured, I was well on my way to 400 by that time. I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan. It does exactly what it says on the tin.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > > It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics. > It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not. And "whether you are able to avoid injury or not" while trying to train up to that goal in the time period suggested depends on so many factors, like body type and genetics. > I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan. "Anyone who has experienced X must recognize the simple effectiveness of X" pretty much defines being a zealot for X.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    > And "whether you are able to avoid injury or not" while trying to train up to that goal in the time period suggested depends on so many factors, like body type and genetics. Not so. You get injured when you exceed your body's ability to sustain the load. You have to be aware of those limitations and work actively on building the ability to exceed them. In weight-lifting that means 1) proper form and 2) knowing when to stop. The former is easier to attain than the latter, but if you can do both, then you can avoid injuring yourself while still making gains. > "Anyone who has experienced X must recognize the simple effectiveness of X" pretty much defines being a zealot for X. That's ridiculous. I've experienced driving a manual transmission and recognize the simplicity of the system and that it gives you a better connection to your engine than an automatic does. Even so, I drive an automatic. If I had a sports car, I'd want a manual, but not for my primary vehicle. I've done many, many things to keep in shape over the years. Starting Strength is great, but it's by no means the only or even best way to do that. That would imply perfection, which doesn't exist. What it is is effective at doing what it sets out to do. Which many other approaches and plans don't have. What's great about SS is that you don't have to throw your whole life into it to experience gains. Just follow the program and you'll get stronger. If you didn't get stronger you weren't following the program. Many of the things I've tried didn't have this property. I took dance classes for a year before I realized I either needed to be rich enough to afford a private tutor or to have been dancing since I was eight to really get it right, and if I'm not getting it right, there are better ways to accomplish fitness goals.
- jonahx 11y ago
  I know all about SS and think it's a good program. It doesn't change the fact that some people will not be able to get that strong, or will find it very difficult or time-consuming. This is just an empirical fact. If you want to "no true scotsman" every counterexample and say the person didn't have the right trainer, didn't work hard enough, or didn't drink his milk, I can't stop you. But I've personally seen people do it and not get anywhere close to deadlifting 400lbs. They were just ectomorphs and didn't put on muscle like that.
- kendallpark 11y ago
  +1 I think these people underestimate what they can already deadlift. I feel like most adult males under 40 could DL at least 200 lbs from the start. Genetics only play a minor role in how much one progresses unless you count the Y-chromosome. The biggest factor is how much testosterone your body produces. If you're male, you're probably fine. I'm sort of an SS hater, but it IS a good program for people that are starting from little to no knowledge of lifting. EDIT: Apparently I'm off around 20 lbs. Most adult men can deadlift over 180lbs it seems. http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/07/mens-maximum-deadlifting-distribution_07.html http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/07/mens-maximum-deadlifti...
  - freehunter 11y ago
    I spent years lifting weights, and I also believe that most people could deadlift 200lbs from the start. I also believe that once they learn technique, they could increase that to at least 250 without putting on any extra muscle. A big part of lifting something heavy is knowing the right way to lift and which muscles you should be using to do it. Hell, if you can jump a few times and do two or three pushups, you've already got the muscles needed to deadlift more than your own bodyweight.
    - kendallpark 11y ago
      > most people most males Let's not forget females have approximately 75% the lower body strength that males have. I don't remember what my starting DL max was, but I doubt I could do 200 at 18 years old. I'm only at like 265-ish now.
      - freehunter 11y ago
        Fair correction, I was going off the parent's statement of males under 40. I'm talking one rep max after warm up. A beginner would be hard pressed to rep nearly that much. My one rep max when I started was 185 and increased to over 300 within a few months. After a year I was maxing at 415, that's where I stopped going any further. I have had (and have seen) massive gains in one rep max just from learning good technique and getting your muscles used to lifting for a week.
- snowwrestler 11y ago
  There's lifting for general health and then there's lifting to get very strong. One does not need to be able to pick 400 lbs off the floor in order to alleviate back pain. To gain that much strength in a year, a person will have to eat a lot of calories in order to produce the muscle mass necessary for lifting that much weight. Unfortunately, high caloric intake seems to be correlated with some negative health outcomes. The correlations persist across levels of fitness (weightlifting vs obesity). Exercise is a great way to reduce pain and improve things like sleep and energy. Lifting weights is a good way to exercise. But, one does not have to dramatically increase calories to see those benefits. You only need a big jump in calories is high strength is the goal.
jclos 11y ago
While I share the original comment's enthusiasm, I have to agree with your skepticism regarding the timescale. Not only does it not guarantee that level of strength in a year, but it should not even be the goal. The goal of strength training is to be stronger today than you were the day before, and the key to (eventually) getting this level of strength is slow, sustained progress over a long period of time. It's a marathon, not a race. An injured body will not get you stronger. Just look at Fabri Janos, 70 year old, less than 83kg (182 lbs), pick up 260kg (573 lbs) with relative ease as a proof of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFCCawnr01U&t=4h40m3s&ab_channel=InternationalPowerliftingFederationIPF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFCCawnr01U&t=4h40m3s&ab_cha... (timestamp at 4h 40m 3s in case it doesn't work)
defen 11y ago
Fair enough - I wouldn't want to discourage anyone who can't reach that for whatever reason. I would also add that diet and sleep are critical - you'll need enough calories and enough sleep to hit that kind of target.
kelukelugames 11y ago
One of the guys in my gym is a world champ powerlifter but I've only seen him pick up 300 pounds. A lot of us are much lighter than the average American male so a more personal goal might be twice bodyweight.
- kendallpark 11y ago
  You don't train at max weight with DL. Also, he wouldn't be an elite lifter if he could do only 300lbs, even in the lightest weight class. http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards.html http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards....
- defen 11y ago
  Are you sure you don't mean kilos? There is no weightclass + lift combo where 300 pounds would be world-class for a male, as far as I can tell, except for the snatch at the lowest weight class (56kg)
  - kelukelugames 11y ago
    Well I posted this because I didn't want some 120lbs kid injuring himself trying to get to 4 plates by the end of the year. But people love to nitpick and argue about powerlifting online. The guy pulled 400 something at 123lbs, but he just does 3 plates these days.

by jonahx 11y ago

vinceguidry 11y ago

> It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics. It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not. Mark Rippletoe's Starting Strength program, administered by a cautious enough trainer, will get most anyone of those characteristics, healthy adult male under 40, there. It's what Mark does for a living. It may be uncomfortable eating several thousand calories a day if you're skinny, but you can't blame the program for your failure to do that. I did starting Strength for about 4 months before I got injured, I was well on my way to 400 by that time. I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan. It does exactly what it says on the tin.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> > It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics. > It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not. And "whether you are able to avoid injury or not" while trying to train up to that goal in the time period suggested depends on so many factors, like body type and genetics. > I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan. "Anyone who has experienced X must recognize the simple effectiveness of X" pretty much defines being a zealot for X.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  > And "whether you are able to avoid injury or not" while trying to train up to that goal in the time period suggested depends on so many factors, like body type and genetics. Not so. You get injured when you exceed your body's ability to sustain the load. You have to be aware of those limitations and work actively on building the ability to exceed them. In weight-lifting that means 1) proper form and 2) knowing when to stop. The former is easier to attain than the latter, but if you can do both, then you can avoid injuring yourself while still making gains. > "Anyone who has experienced X must recognize the simple effectiveness of X" pretty much defines being a zealot for X. That's ridiculous. I've experienced driving a manual transmission and recognize the simplicity of the system and that it gives you a better connection to your engine than an automatic does. Even so, I drive an automatic. If I had a sports car, I'd want a manual, but not for my primary vehicle. I've done many, many things to keep in shape over the years. Starting Strength is great, but it's by no means the only or even best way to do that. That would imply perfection, which doesn't exist. What it is is effective at doing what it sets out to do. Which many other approaches and plans don't have. What's great about SS is that you don't have to throw your whole life into it to experience gains. Just follow the program and you'll get stronger. If you didn't get stronger you weren't following the program. Many of the things I've tried didn't have this property. I took dance classes for a year before I realized I either needed to be rich enough to afford a private tutor or to have been dancing since I was eight to really get it right, and if I'm not getting it right, there are better ways to accomplish fitness goals.
jonahx 11y ago
I know all about SS and think it's a good program. It doesn't change the fact that some people will not be able to get that strong, or will find it very difficult or time-consuming. This is just an empirical fact. If you want to "no true scotsman" every counterexample and say the person didn't have the right trainer, didn't work hard enough, or didn't drink his milk, I can't stop you. But I've personally seen people do it and not get anywhere close to deadlifting 400lbs. They were just ectomorphs and didn't put on muscle like that.
kendallpark 11y ago
+1 I think these people underestimate what they can already deadlift. I feel like most adult males under 40 could DL at least 200 lbs from the start. Genetics only play a minor role in how much one progresses unless you count the Y-chromosome. The biggest factor is how much testosterone your body produces. If you're male, you're probably fine. I'm sort of an SS hater, but it IS a good program for people that are starting from little to no knowledge of lifting. EDIT: Apparently I'm off around 20 lbs. Most adult men can deadlift over 180lbs it seems. http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/07/mens-maximum-deadlifting-distribution_07.html http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/07/mens-maximum-deadlifti...
- freehunter 11y ago
  I spent years lifting weights, and I also believe that most people could deadlift 200lbs from the start. I also believe that once they learn technique, they could increase that to at least 250 without putting on any extra muscle. A big part of lifting something heavy is knowing the right way to lift and which muscles you should be using to do it. Hell, if you can jump a few times and do two or three pushups, you've already got the muscles needed to deadlift more than your own bodyweight.
  - kendallpark 11y ago
    > most people most males Let's not forget females have approximately 75% the lower body strength that males have. I don't remember what my starting DL max was, but I doubt I could do 200 at 18 years old. I'm only at like 265-ish now.
    - freehunter 11y ago
      Fair correction, I was going off the parent's statement of males under 40. I'm talking one rep max after warm up. A beginner would be hard pressed to rep nearly that much. My one rep max when I started was 185 and increased to over 300 within a few months. After a year I was maxing at 415, that's where I stopped going any further. I have had (and have seen) massive gains in one rep max just from learning good technique and getting your muscles used to lifting for a week.
snowwrestler 11y ago
There's lifting for general health and then there's lifting to get very strong. One does not need to be able to pick 400 lbs off the floor in order to alleviate back pain. To gain that much strength in a year, a person will have to eat a lot of calories in order to produce the muscle mass necessary for lifting that much weight. Unfortunately, high caloric intake seems to be correlated with some negative health outcomes. The correlations persist across levels of fitness (weightlifting vs obesity). Exercise is a great way to reduce pain and improve things like sleep and energy. Lifting weights is a good way to exercise. But, one does not have to dramatically increase calories to see those benefits. You only need a big jump in calories is high strength is the goal.

jclos 11y ago

While I share the original comment's enthusiasm, I have to agree with your skepticism regarding the timescale. Not only does it not guarantee that level of strength in a year, but it should not even be the goal. The goal of strength training is to be stronger today than you were the day before, and the key to (eventually) getting this level of strength is slow, sustained progress over a long period of time. It's a marathon, not a race. An injured body will not get you stronger. Just look at Fabri Janos, 70 year old, less than 83kg (182 lbs), pick up 260kg (573 lbs) with relative ease as a proof of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFCCawnr01U&t=4h40m3s&ab_channel=InternationalPowerliftingFederationIPF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFCCawnr01U&t=4h40m3s&ab_cha... (timestamp at 4h 40m 3s in case it doesn't work)

defen 11y ago

Fair enough - I wouldn't want to discourage anyone who can't reach that for whatever reason. I would also add that diet and sleep are critical - you'll need enough calories and enough sleep to hit that kind of target.

kelukelugames 11y ago

One of the guys in my gym is a world champ powerlifter but I've only seen him pick up 300 pounds. A lot of us are much lighter than the average American male so a more personal goal might be twice bodyweight.

kendallpark 11y ago
You don't train at max weight with DL. Also, he wouldn't be an elite lifter if he could do only 300lbs, even in the lightest weight class. http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards.html http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards....
defen 11y ago
Are you sure you don't mean kilos? There is no weightclass + lift combo where 300 pounds would be world-class for a male, as far as I can tell, except for the snatch at the lowest weight class (56kg)
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  Well I posted this because I didn't want some 120lbs kid injuring himself trying to get to 4 plates by the end of the year. But people love to nitpick and argue about powerlifting online. The guy pulled 400 something at 123lbs, but he just does 3 plates these days.