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The problem is the same as that for insider trading on the stock market: it undercuts trust in the market causing a drop in the number of participants which lea

The problem is the same as that for insider trading on the stock market: it undercuts trust in the market causing a drop in the number of participants which leads to less liquidity and a less efficient market. Anyone who knew there was a way to garner the profits from the lottery, but didn't know the way, would be a fool to play.

discardorama 11y ago
> The problem is the same as that for insider trading on the stock market: Nope, not at all. These people are playing by the rules. The lottery officials are aware of their play; and yet don't consider it illegal. There is nothing wrong with using your superior skillset legally to make some money.
- bweitzman 11y ago
  IMO it's not the students that are in the wrong, it's the officials. The fact that they knew about this loophole and didn't nothing to close it is tantamount to bribery if you ask me.
- ganeumann 11y ago
  The question was why should the lottery have a problem with that, not what the law is. If you design a game--whether it's a lottery or a market--that allows some an advantage others don't have or reasonably expect to get, then that's a bad design.
  - random28345 11y ago
    It's a lottery. The masses aren't playing it because they think it's equitable, the masses are playing it because they lack critical thinking skills. As long as people think they can get rich quick, it's a good design.
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  Isn't this the same argument that gets you thrown out of casinos for counting cards? If the game has a bug that only a few players know about, it isn't fair, by definition.
  - discardorama 11y ago
    But a casino does not consider counting cards legal. Hence the boot. Consider, for example, one of those "how many marbles are in this jar?" games. If I use my knowledge of math and physics to derive a pretty accurate estimate, it's not wrong, is it?
mesozoic 11y ago
Your premise is flawed as you are assuming only rational actors are playing the lottery. By definition those playing the lottery are usually not rational actors and thus cannot fall into the framework you propose.
- ganeumann 11y ago
  I don't assume that, just as I don't assume it with the stock market. The problem does not really lie with the actual unfairness of the game, it lies with the perception of unfairness. The stock market is always entirely unfair to retail investors, in comparison to professionals, for several reasons. But in times that retail investors view the market as unfair, the market suffers.
ngoel36 11y ago
Your odds are stated on the back of the card; if you're playing at all, you are already a fool (or don't care)
- sanoli 11y ago
  Or you're too poor to envision any other way to get rich and the lottery is the one way you can fantasize. In my case, I play with my 4 best friends, mostly because it's fun and a way for us to get together on something (we all live in different cities now). It's a tiny amount of money very well spent for me.
- ganeumann 11y ago
  I'm guessing, if the MIT group could reliably beat the game, that the odds were not stated on the back of the card.
  - firethief 11y ago
    The card doesn't state the odds for that particular card conditional on the date of its purchase; it is presumably an average across all card purchases.
j2kun 11y ago
Then again, lottery organizers are known to give out more winnings to show people that You Can Win Too! The problem only happens when the public finds out that one person is consistently receiving the proceeds, and they feel that it's somehow unfair. But it's not really, since they're paying a much larger amount to buy all these tickets, not to mention the cost of processing the winnings, filling out tax forms, etc.
firethief 11y ago
Gamblers tend to believe they have "a system" of one kind or another, often based on misunderstandings of probability. I'm sure there's a proportion of the market who'd see this as evidence that "systems can really work" and be encouraged to play even more.

discardorama 11y ago

> The problem is the same as that for insider trading on the stock market: Nope, not at all. These people are playing by the rules. The lottery officials are aware of their play; and yet don't consider it illegal. There is nothing wrong with using your superior skillset legally to make some money.

bweitzman 11y ago
IMO it's not the students that are in the wrong, it's the officials. The fact that they knew about this loophole and didn't nothing to close it is tantamount to bribery if you ask me.
ganeumann 11y ago
The question was why should the lottery have a problem with that, not what the law is. If you design a game--whether it's a lottery or a market--that allows some an advantage others don't have or reasonably expect to get, then that's a bad design.
- random28345 11y ago
  It's a lottery. The masses aren't playing it because they think it's equitable, the masses are playing it because they lack critical thinking skills. As long as people think they can get rich quick, it's a good design.
CamperBob2 11y ago
Isn't this the same argument that gets you thrown out of casinos for counting cards? If the game has a bug that only a few players know about, it isn't fair, by definition.
- discardorama 11y ago
  But a casino does not consider counting cards legal. Hence the boot. Consider, for example, one of those "how many marbles are in this jar?" games. If I use my knowledge of math and physics to derive a pretty accurate estimate, it's not wrong, is it?

mesozoic 11y ago

Your premise is flawed as you are assuming only rational actors are playing the lottery. By definition those playing the lottery are usually not rational actors and thus cannot fall into the framework you propose.

ganeumann 11y ago
I don't assume that, just as I don't assume it with the stock market. The problem does not really lie with the actual unfairness of the game, it lies with the perception of unfairness. The stock market is always entirely unfair to retail investors, in comparison to professionals, for several reasons. But in times that retail investors view the market as unfair, the market suffers.

ngoel36 11y ago

Your odds are stated on the back of the card; if you're playing at all, you are already a fool (or don't care)

sanoli 11y ago
Or you're too poor to envision any other way to get rich and the lottery is the one way you can fantasize. In my case, I play with my 4 best friends, mostly because it's fun and a way for us to get together on something (we all live in different cities now). It's a tiny amount of money very well spent for me.
ganeumann 11y ago
I'm guessing, if the MIT group could reliably beat the game, that the odds were not stated on the back of the card.
- firethief 11y ago
  The card doesn't state the odds for that particular card conditional on the date of its purchase; it is presumably an average across all card purchases.

j2kun 11y ago

Then again, lottery organizers are known to give out more winnings to show people that You Can Win Too! The problem only happens when the public finds out that one person is consistently receiving the proceeds, and they feel that it's somehow unfair. But it's not really, since they're paying a much larger amount to buy all these tickets, not to mention the cost of processing the winnings, filling out tax forms, etc.

firethief 11y ago

Gamblers tend to believe they have "a system" of one kind or another, often based on misunderstandings of probability. I'm sure there's a proportion of the market who'd see this as evidence that "systems can really work" and be encouraged to play even more.