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I am curious to see whether the net benefits have been positive. My understanding even in Europe most of the links are unprofitable. Sure, there are positive

I am curious to see whether the net benefits have been positive. My understanding even in Europe most of the links are unprofitable. Sure, there are positive externalities that may not be factored into the accounting profits, but there is also opportunity cost of the money. Are there good studies on this ?

simias 11y ago
I know that in France the high speed lines connecting areas with high population density like Paris-Marseille or Paris-Lyon are among the most profitable for the SCNF. But of course that's a complex issue, some say that the local service degraded as more resources were diverted to the TGV lines. I can't really imagine that having the center of Marseille 3 hours away from the center of Paris can be a net negative overall. It beats the plane every time, that's for sure.
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  why does it beat the plane? the plane is 1hr, the train is 3 ?
  - simias 11y ago
    The airport is not in either city centers, there are more security checks, you have to check your luggage in etc... The door-to-door travel time is significantly more than 1hour for the plane. Also in my experience the TGV is much more comfortable than similarly priced airplane tickets. You can look at the landscape (unless you're traveling by night), you have more room, you can walk around etc...
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    It takes half an hour from Marseille to its airport. Another hour because you have to be early for check-in and 'security' procedures. Yet more 30 minutes in Paris to get back to the city center (no matter at which airport you land). The high speed train stops right in the city center. So unless one of your endpoints is close to one of the airports it's 3 hours for both of them.
krschultz 11y ago
Highways are also not self funding. Note that the Northeast Corridor, the only thing approaching high speed rail in the US, is very profitable. Unfortunately Amtrak then has to take that surplus to subsidize unprofitable routes elsewhere.
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  well, some highways are private and self funding. But yeah, even if they are not, the issue is whether to build something in addition to the highways.

simias 11y ago

I know that in France the high speed lines connecting areas with high population density like Paris-Marseille or Paris-Lyon are among the most profitable for the SCNF. But of course that's a complex issue, some say that the local service degraded as more resources were diverted to the TGV lines. I can't really imagine that having the center of Marseille 3 hours away from the center of Paris can be a net negative overall. It beats the plane every time, that's for sure.

vasilipupkin 11y ago
why does it beat the plane? the plane is 1hr, the train is 3 ?
- simias 11y ago
  The airport is not in either city centers, there are more security checks, you have to check your luggage in etc... The door-to-door travel time is significantly more than 1hour for the plane. Also in my experience the TGV is much more comfortable than similarly priced airplane tickets. You can look at the landscape (unless you're traveling by night), you have more room, you can walk around etc...
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  It takes half an hour from Marseille to its airport. Another hour because you have to be early for check-in and 'security' procedures. Yet more 30 minutes in Paris to get back to the city center (no matter at which airport you land). The high speed train stops right in the city center. So unless one of your endpoints is close to one of the airports it's 3 hours for both of them.

krschultz 11y ago

Highways are also not self funding. Note that the Northeast Corridor, the only thing approaching high speed rail in the US, is very profitable. Unfortunately Amtrak then has to take that surplus to subsidize unprofitable routes elsewhere.

vasilipupkin 11y ago
well, some highways are private and self funding. But yeah, even if they are not, the issue is whether to build something in addition to the highways.