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It was perhaps unfair to single Rust out given that it is so young, but there are costs to any innovation, and the first cost that leaped out at me was stories

It was perhaps unfair to single Rust out given that it is so young, but there are costs to any innovation, and the first cost that leaped out at me was stories of long compile times. Besides, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Personal anecdotes of increased productivity remain anecdotal - it may be more a property of the programmer than the language. I don't personally have a horse in the race, but pointing out cost points is needed.

jerf 11y ago
I really don't expect Rust to exhibit what most people mean by "increased productivity", ever. Most people mean something fairly local by that, or at most medium sized, that it allows them to take some task and write code faster than other languages that accomplishes the task. Rust is always going to labor under the disadvantage that it holds you to a higher degree of correctness than other languages, and at best it can tie with another language that doesn't hold you to those guarantees of correctness. Where it'll increase productivity or not is at larger scales. If Servo comes out at production quality in some reasonable time (call it 2 years or less from now, given where they are), able to function on the general web most of the time, and it's also faster than current renderers by a significant margin, and with some small fraction of the development effort (probably even if you include the entire Rust development effort; do not underestimate the effort poured into the existing engines!), I will consider Rust's story proved. We've now had many people take cracks at writing renderers, in the fastest language of the time for the task (C++), and I daresay they've converged at fairly similar levels of performance with little reason to believe the renderers are going to get much faster. Said renderers have had massive optimizations applied to them, and this Servo that I'm expecting to be much faster will actually be version 1.0, basically. If Rust is to work at all, there will very, very rapidly be a class of development that it will be actually insane to write in anything but Rust... but that will only be the very high-and-large end. (It will take many more years for this fact to penetrate through to the development community at large.)
- Dewie3 11y ago
  The standards one holds emerging technologies to tends to be proportional to how much one personally dislikes them. (and of course the corollary vice versa)

jerf 11y ago

I really don't expect Rust to exhibit what most people mean by "increased productivity", ever. Most people mean something fairly local by that, or at most medium sized, that it allows them to take some task and write code faster than other languages that accomplishes the task. Rust is always going to labor under the disadvantage that it holds you to a higher degree of correctness than other languages, and at best it can tie with another language that doesn't hold you to those guarantees of correctness. Where it'll increase productivity or not is at larger scales. If Servo comes out at production quality in some reasonable time (call it 2 years or less from now, given where they are), able to function on the general web most of the time, and it's also faster than current renderers by a significant margin, and with some small fraction of the development effort (probably even if you include the entire Rust development effort; do not underestimate the effort poured into the existing engines!), I will consider Rust's story proved. We've now had many people take cracks at writing renderers, in the fastest language of the time for the task (C++), and I daresay they've converged at fairly similar levels of performance with little reason to believe the renderers are going to get much faster. Said renderers have had massive optimizations applied to them, and this Servo that I'm expecting to be much faster will actually be version 1.0, basically. If Rust is to work at all, there will very, very rapidly be a class of development that it will be actually insane to write in anything but Rust... but that will only be the very high-and-large end. (It will take many more years for this fact to penetrate through to the development community at large.)

Dewie3 11y ago
The standards one holds emerging technologies to tends to be proportional to how much one personally dislikes them. (and of course the corollary vice versa)