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I don't know if this is your intent, but you have in an instant completely flipped Judaism from something interesting to this agnostic, to something completely

I don't know if this is your intent, but you have in an instant completely flipped Judaism from something interesting to this agnostic, to something completely dead-end and not worth pursuing. A compromising approach is accessible. A hard-line "nothing less than absolute and total devotion is even worth considering, and therefore fundamentally not worth your time" is not. Where is the unsure, dubious, or curious individual to even begin, if all that is even acceptable is absolutely unwavering, unshaking, unhesitating prostration? I realize teachings don't care what is accessible and what is not. I'm not trying to tell you what should be taught. But, just, if you ever wonder why it is shrinking instead of growing- FYI.

jorangreef 11y ago
I think you're mistaking the parent's refusal to compromise that which is truly good, for something else.
ars 11y ago
> A hard-line "nothing less than absolute and total devotion is even worth considering, and therefore fundamentally not worth your time" is not. Judaism is about how to have a relationship with God. How can a human hope to do that? By doing what God asked. But also by arguing over what God wants. It's like how do you have a relationship with a person you never met? By reading his writings. The atheists in the story probably spend more time thinking about God than a regular member. By doing what God wants (the actions), and by thinking about him constantly, they probably have a deeper relationship with God than others do. > But, just, if you ever wonder why it is shrinking instead of growing- FYI. Judaism is not looking for converts. If you want to convert you can, but Judaism isn't going to try to convince you, or tell you your path in life is wrong. Non-Jews can live perfectly meaningful lives.
davemel37 11y ago
I must have failed to communicate clearly. Let me explain. The fundamental purpose of life according to Judaism is about striving towards personal perfection and growth(Tikun Olam). Striving towards being the key terms.as long as you are trying, you are serving your purpose on your own level. This is actually what ars was talking about...it's better to act without belief than to not act...my only point was not to lose focus on the end goal. If I had to explain it without religion from the simple perspective of seeking truth. I would say," since intellect is driven by will(we only learn something if we want to, we only seek the answer to a question we care about, etc...)how can we seperate out our personal bias and desires and subjective needs from the absolute truth we all so desperately seek?" Almost all the mitzvos in the Torah and ritual activities Jews partake in are about selflessness and finding ways to root out personal bias so you can see the truth. If you have to pray before biting into an Apple, you are essentially putting G-ds will ahead of your own desire to eat. By nurturing this sensitivity and willingness to seek truth from outside yourself and your own research, you can be more objective and find absolute truth. Think about a science experiment where you start with only one hypothesis. You can easily find evidence to confirm your hypothesis, but it won't prove anything scientifically because you didn't compare hypothesis to see if the evidence can support other hypothesis as well. In order to maximize on personal relationships, life, etc... You need to root out your personal emotions and bias as much as possible... That's all Judaism is about... rooting out subjective bias to seek truth in an effort to achieve personal growth. This requires a willingness to trust others before you and recognize that if you only behave based on what you fully understand you will be acting on bias. So, we do lots of things we don't quite understand trusting our parents, grandparents, etc...as we seek to understand more and more.

jorangreef 11y ago

I think you're mistaking the parent's refusal to compromise that which is truly good, for something else.

ars 11y ago

> A hard-line "nothing less than absolute and total devotion is even worth considering, and therefore fundamentally not worth your time" is not. Judaism is about how to have a relationship with God. How can a human hope to do that? By doing what God asked. But also by arguing over what God wants. It's like how do you have a relationship with a person you never met? By reading his writings. The atheists in the story probably spend more time thinking about God than a regular member. By doing what God wants (the actions), and by thinking about him constantly, they probably have a deeper relationship with God than others do. > But, just, if you ever wonder why it is shrinking instead of growing- FYI. Judaism is not looking for converts. If you want to convert you can, but Judaism isn't going to try to convince you, or tell you your path in life is wrong. Non-Jews can live perfectly meaningful lives.

davemel37 11y ago

I must have failed to communicate clearly. Let me explain. The fundamental purpose of life according to Judaism is about striving towards personal perfection and growth(Tikun Olam). Striving towards being the key terms.as long as you are trying, you are serving your purpose on your own level. This is actually what ars was talking about...it's better to act without belief than to not act...my only point was not to lose focus on the end goal. If I had to explain it without religion from the simple perspective of seeking truth. I would say," since intellect is driven by will(we only learn something if we want to, we only seek the answer to a question we care about, etc...)how can we seperate out our personal bias and desires and subjective needs from the absolute truth we all so desperately seek?" Almost all the mitzvos in the Torah and ritual activities Jews partake in are about selflessness and finding ways to root out personal bias so you can see the truth. If you have to pray before biting into an Apple, you are essentially putting G-ds will ahead of your own desire to eat. By nurturing this sensitivity and willingness to seek truth from outside yourself and your own research, you can be more objective and find absolute truth. Think about a science experiment where you start with only one hypothesis. You can easily find evidence to confirm your hypothesis, but it won't prove anything scientifically because you didn't compare hypothesis to see if the evidence can support other hypothesis as well. In order to maximize on personal relationships, life, etc... You need to root out your personal emotions and bias as much as possible... That's all Judaism is about... rooting out subjective bias to seek truth in an effort to achieve personal growth. This requires a willingness to trust others before you and recognize that if you only behave based on what you fully understand you will be acting on bias. So, we do lots of things we don't quite understand trusting our parents, grandparents, etc...as we seek to understand more and more.