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> Soon, the cheapest means of raising IQ will be iterated embryo selection, later direct genetic modification. So many people on the internet go on about the i

> Soon, the cheapest means of raising IQ will be iterated embryo selection, later direct genetic modification. So many people on the internet go on about the inevitability of genetic engineering for traits like intelligence. There's pretty much zero experimental evidence it's going to work as of yet. It's all statistical wankery. Find me one mouse experiment where they can repeatedly engineer a faster mouse or a smarter mouse from common mice. Oh, they can make its fur green (or whatever), but there's not even a hint anyone is close to manipulating complex aspects of phenotype any better than dog breeders.

Moshe_Silnorin 11y ago
Genetic engineering is really hard. A huge amount of genes contribute to IQ. It's not possible now and it won't be until we can safely alter thousands of genes in an embryo. I don't see direct engineering in the near future. Iterated embryo selection (and just plain embryo selection) however, do seem likely in the next two decades.
- a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
  There is zero experimental basis to assume embryo selection will work better than breeding for complex traits in the near future. It's a scifi idea that for some strange reason gets nerds excited.
  - barry-cotter 11y ago
    Who cares of it works better than being for complex traits? If it works as well as being for complex traits that's really great. Selective breeding can move a population mean about half a standard deviation per generation. That's not iterated embryo selection, just once. I would pay a lot of money to be guaranteed a child in the upper 50% of what is possible with me and my girlfriend's genes. If you want an illustration of the power of selective breeding contemplate the various breeds of dog. For a modern and well documented example see the domestication of the Silver Fox. It only took them six generations to domesticate them. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox The least domesticated foxes, those that flee from experimenters or bite when stroked or handled, are assigned to Class III. Foxes in Class II let themselves be petted and handled but show no emotionally friendly response to experimenters. Foxes in Class I are friendly toward experimenters, wagging their tails and whining. In the sixth generation bred for tameness we had to add an even higher-scoring category. Members of Class IE, the "domesticated elite," are eager to establish human contact, whimpering to attract attention and sniffing and licking experimenters like dogs. They start displaying this kind of behavior before they are one month old. By the tenth generation, 18 percent of fox pups were elite; by the 20th, the figure had reached 35 percent. Today elite foxes make up 70 to 80 percent of our experimentally selected population.
autokad 11y ago
what about that NIMH research lab? they had some promising results until the mice escaped
- megaman22 11y ago
  Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
peterfirefly 11y ago
Human astrocytes are apparently better than other mammalian astrocytes. How do we know that? We've put them in mice. It made the mice smarter. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26639-the-smart-mouse-with-the-halfhuman-brain.html#.VXSjvd_OuV4 http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26639-the-smart-mouse-... http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/48/16153.abstract http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/48/16153.abstract https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/labs/Nedergaard-Lab/publications/pdfs/Forebrain-Engraftment.pdf https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/labs/Nedergaard-Lab/publicati...

Moshe_Silnorin 11y ago

Genetic engineering is really hard. A huge amount of genes contribute to IQ. It's not possible now and it won't be until we can safely alter thousands of genes in an embryo. I don't see direct engineering in the near future. Iterated embryo selection (and just plain embryo selection) however, do seem likely in the next two decades.

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
There is zero experimental basis to assume embryo selection will work better than breeding for complex traits in the near future. It's a scifi idea that for some strange reason gets nerds excited.
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  Who cares of it works better than being for complex traits? If it works as well as being for complex traits that's really great. Selective breeding can move a population mean about half a standard deviation per generation. That's not iterated embryo selection, just once. I would pay a lot of money to be guaranteed a child in the upper 50% of what is possible with me and my girlfriend's genes. If you want an illustration of the power of selective breeding contemplate the various breeds of dog. For a modern and well documented example see the domestication of the Silver Fox. It only took them six generations to domesticate them. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox The least domesticated foxes, those that flee from experimenters or bite when stroked or handled, are assigned to Class III. Foxes in Class II let themselves be petted and handled but show no emotionally friendly response to experimenters. Foxes in Class I are friendly toward experimenters, wagging their tails and whining. In the sixth generation bred for tameness we had to add an even higher-scoring category. Members of Class IE, the "domesticated elite," are eager to establish human contact, whimpering to attract attention and sniffing and licking experimenters like dogs. They start displaying this kind of behavior before they are one month old. By the tenth generation, 18 percent of fox pups were elite; by the 20th, the figure had reached 35 percent. Today elite foxes make up 70 to 80 percent of our experimentally selected population.

autokad 11y ago

what about that NIMH research lab? they had some promising results until the mice escaped

megaman22 11y ago
Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?

peterfirefly 11y ago

Human astrocytes are apparently better than other mammalian astrocytes. How do we know that? We've put them in mice. It made the mice smarter. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26639-the-smart-mouse-with-the-halfhuman-brain.html#.VXSjvd_OuV4 http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26639-the-smart-mouse-... http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/48/16153.abstract http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/48/16153.abstract https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/labs/Nedergaard-Lab/publications/pdfs/Forebrain-Engraftment.pdf https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/labs/Nedergaard-Lab/publicati...