9 ms·

PepsiCo's CEO Indra Nooyi Was Right. Now What?

56 points by doppp 11y ago

dubbel 11y ago
"Do you want to sell sugared water for the rest of your life?" - looks like Indra Nooyi doesn't.
- UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
  They said healthier, not healthy. Most "healthier alternatives" are still "sugared water" they are just lower in sugar and higher in artificial flavorants than the typical sodas (Dr. P, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc). Honestly I really want to see a push to lower acidity in drinks. They seriously should start putting that on the bottle and talking about it. Acid drinks are a major health crisis that nobody talks about.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    Acidity is bad for teeth, particularly in locations without fluoridated municipal water. Is acidity implicated in any other health problems?
    - ch4s3 11y ago
      Maybe super indirectly heart disease, as tooth decay and gum disease are linked to heart disease... but that's a stretch.
    - thomas943 11y ago
      I don't know about acidity, but fluoride has been implicated in many health problems. Here's a list of peer reviewed studies: http://fluoridealert.org/studytracker/?effect=&type=reviews&start_year=&end_year=&show=10&fulltext=&fantranslation= http://fluoridealert.org/studytracker/?effect=&type=reviews&...
      - jschwartzi 11y ago
        In spite of that, it's still nice to not have had any dental fillings or major dental work by the time I turn 30. This will be different from both of my parents. I think I'm happy to trade a minor increase in some other risks for the ability to eat without pain.
        juliangregorian 11y ago
        Cool anecdote, but you know what would be even better? If we had a choice.
        TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
        You do have a choice. If fluoride scares you so much, stop brushing your teeth and buy a water filter. Oh, and eat a diet that has no carbohydrates in it.
        juliangregorian 11y ago
        Cute answer, but I, along with the entire non-toddler population, don't ingest toothpaste. HN's propensity for "don't like it? Just buy this gadget/start your own company/move to Somalia"-style rhetoric also makes an appearance. I have no idea what you meant with the carbohydrate comment if you wouldn't mind explaining. Oh and thanks for the down vote, but this isn't reddit.
        TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
        > Cute answer, but I, along with the entire non-toddler population, don't ingest toothpaste. You do ingest toothpaste, albeit only small amounts. Much like you ingest mouthwash, you just try to keep it to a minimum. > HN's propensity for "don't like it? Just buy this gadget/start your own company/move to Somalia"-style rhetoric also makes an appearance. What else can I suggest? In a democratic society that is your choice. You can fight to change the law, or you can work around it. > I have no idea what you meant with the carbohydrate comment if you wouldn't mind explaining. Since humans developed agriculture and started consuming large amounts of carbohydrates, they have experienced tooth decay. Fluoride is necessary to prevent it. > Oh and thanks for the down vote, but this isn't reddit. This discussion is completely off-topic and your comments are unhelpful. A downvote is justifiable.
AlbertoGP 11y ago
tl;dr: she's been introducing slightly healthier products and sales have stoppend falling.
- dylanjermiah 11y ago
  Thank you. I can't put my finger on it but the first 1/4th of the article through me off.
  - raldi 11y ago
    It's because the headline teases you with the whisper that she was right about something, presumably controversial, but then the articles dances around for ages before revealing what it is.
  - deelowe 11y ago
    Is there a term for this kind of "journalism?" I've heard it described before as being journalism for journalists or that the journalists have to fill a certain amount of space, so simple articles become wordy and tedious. I see it all the time and hate it, but don't know how to describe it.
    - adam419 11y ago
      Similar to the agency problem except it's not a misalignment between managers and shareholders but between "operators" ie journalists and consumers. The journalism suits the interest of the journalists and their managers and not the reader.
    - baconner 11y ago
      Yes, I believe the term is "churnalism." Stories which are primarily PR barely disguised. PR reps pitch stories to journalists and get them curated access to write a story. Lazy journalists go along needing to churn out stories regularly.
- InclinedPlane 11y ago
  It's incredibly bizarre how plain old fashioned common sense business practices (be responsive to customer needs, sell things that turn a profit) are somehow seen as innovative and unique.
golergka 11y ago
Surprise: capitalism actually works and makes companies follow consumer wishes. If consumers actually vote for these wishes with their wallets, of course.
- manishsharan 11y ago
  Pardon me , but you seem have to got the terms "free market economy" and "capitalism" mixed up. Free market economy and capitalism may be entwined but they mean very different things and they cannot be used as synonyms of each other.
  - JesperRavn 11y ago
    They are synonyms. The field of economics (the only field that could legitimately claim to give exact definitions to these terms) uses them interchangeably, and tends not to care about classification or exact verbal definitions, but rather focuses on the implications of various mathematical models. If there is ambiguity in a verbal definition, it can be clarified by writing down a mathematical model, not by endless debates about the meaning of words or classification of the economies of different nations.
    - cromulent 11y ago
      My experience of economics as a social science is the opposite - that it does not relate specifically to mathematical models. For example, the distinction between a mixed economy and pure capitalism is very clear.
      - JesperRavn 11y ago
        In my experience (Economics PhD) the term "command economy" is used to describe a theoretical extreme where the government dictates all consumption and production decisions, while "free market", unqualified, refers to the situation where the government only enforces property rights. "Pure capitalism" would be a synonym for "free market" although it's rarely used academically, I guess because the term capitalism is a lot less descriptive that "free market". Terms like "mixed economy" just refer to somewhere in between these two extremes. As I said, economists are not particularly interested in giving things accurate names, or classifying them. They mighty do this occasionally, as is necessary especially when communicating with people outside the field, but the field itself relies mainly on mathematical models, not sociological categories. That is why I feel the need to correct someone who, speaking with an authoritative tone, claims to know that "free market" and "capitalism" have precise and different meanings.
Eric_WVGG 11y ago
I first learned about Nooyl after reading this PA comic trilogy back in '11 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/01/03 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/01/03 …so nice to hear that her cult is still working out
- gumby 11y ago
  That comic is right on. I remember being shocked when I met the lead engineer on Pringles. He was understandably quite proud of the engineering problems they'd solved. I shouldn't have been shocked. He is a food engineer. Sounded like a joke title, but the supermarket shelves have more engineering in them as the shelves of Best Buy. I threw in the towel and pretty much buy raw food, bread from bakeries that can't afford all the soy supplements etc. The manufactured stuff I guy (bread, butter etc) costs a lot more because the labor content of the food is higher. Luckily I can afford it. I am morally unclear on the value of the engineered food. On one hand it's true, we have calories and vitamins, fibre etc in the hands of people who in an earlier age couldn't afford it. On the other hand the nutritional value available to poorer people is still lower than the wealthy.
marcusgarvey 11y ago
>“The consumer has turned the definition [of healthy] upside down,” she says. “If it is non-GMO, natural, or organic, but high in sodium and high in sugar and fat, it’s okay.” True and important to note when you're grocery shopping. Organic, natural, non-GMO do not mean that thing you're holding in your hand is actually good for you.
- jkestner 11y ago
  I wish someone would start a no-added-sugar movement. I have a sweet tooth, but the amount of sugar added to even fruit products disgusts me. Dried mango without sugar costs 2x. Raisin bran does not need more sugar. That's the point of the raisins! I like creamer in my coffee, but I cut it with milk.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    The problem with "no sugar added" labels is they allow the use of things that happen to contain a lot of sugar, like apple and grape juices. It's just as misleading as many of the other call-out labels.
    - jkestner 11y ago
      To you and siblings, true. That speaks to a need to stop misleading consumers with marketing terms that don't mean what they mean. I'm speaking more from my personal taste than from public health - I just don't want my food to be so sweet. The industry has jacked up sugar and salt content, in all its forms, to where what the mass market demands is well outside my taste. (Another example - my local coffeehouse has a half-sweet latte drink which is itself almost too sweet. I'm guessing the full-sweetness version makes room for more cane syrup by taking out actual coffee.) Relevant read: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?partner=rss&pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary...
  - goodJobWalrus 11y ago
    Since you mentioned dried fruit twice, I thought you might find interesting that WHO recommends counting dried fruit as added sugar (also honey and natural syrups, such as maple, in addition to what we usually count as added sugar).
Nano2rad 11y ago
Finding faults just to show the authority just like rhetorical questions. Rectification of those "insignificant infractions" need not make the company or product better
ars 11y ago
I wonder about this article. They say people are buying less orange juice because of the sugar. But I think they are buying less because it's so crazy expensive. I know that's why I stopped.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  I tried to go from Sodas to processed <fruit> juice, but doctors explained that the sugar content was similar. I then tried to by raw oranges but couldn't find anything worth eating. Acid like a lemon, crooked, dry almost solid, skin ripping the fruit apart ... Nothing like my memories when I could peel an orange and enjoy the delicious slices one by one. To get 'normal' oranges I had to seek for expensive packages.
  - gboss 11y ago
    Don't give up on oranges! There are many different varieties out there and you may not have found one you like yet. Also tangelos can be sweeter. While oranges are usually sold year round in grocery stores, they actually have a harvest season. In North America oranges are in season November through May. I use find the best oranges around December to February. Valencia oranges are best for juicing rather than eating and navel oranges are easiest to peel. A good orange is hard to beat!
    - agumonkey 11y ago
      I love orange, and almost anything edible. I suspect current production strategy to lower quality drastically in exchange for lifespan and other logistic qualities.
janj 11y ago
I don't think there's much question that this company is harmful to societies and individuals around the world. Does it make sense for people other than shareholders to admire this person?
johnohara 11y ago
It's breathtaking to consider the amount of shelf-space that Pepsi products occupy. Pepsi, Frito-Lay, Doritos, Tostitos, Gatorade, Aquafina, Tropicana, Quaker Oats, not to mention Lipton, 7-Up, Mountain Dew and Naked. It's a planet with its own gravity and atmosphere. It takes a special perspective to sell $66B worth of product while blaming consumers for their inability to discern healthy food. On the plus side tho', their production requirements oftentimes bring state-of-the-art processing facilities to areas lacking in, or in desperate need of, clean water and filtration. Parts of India come to mind.
nameiscarl 11y ago
> major activist investor: Nelson Peltz I wish the press would do the responsible thing and use the proper words for those things: "corporate raiders". Giving into establishment's newspeak is not doing anyone a favor. And let questionable people do the toxic thing they do (destroying companies for his own interest) while feeling good about themselves. For now, I chose to keep away from any media that uses those lying words (such the ones one would use to cover up for torture, bombings, etc). Noted: Fortune is in the no read list.

56 points by doppp 11y ago

dubbel 11y ago

"Do you want to sell sugared water for the rest of your life?" - looks like Indra Nooyi doesn't.

UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
They said healthier, not healthy. Most "healthier alternatives" are still "sugared water" they are just lower in sugar and higher in artificial flavorants than the typical sodas (Dr. P, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc). Honestly I really want to see a push to lower acidity in drinks. They seriously should start putting that on the bottle and talking about it. Acid drinks are a major health crisis that nobody talks about.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  Acidity is bad for teeth, particularly in locations without fluoridated municipal water. Is acidity implicated in any other health problems?
  - ch4s3 11y ago
    Maybe super indirectly heart disease, as tooth decay and gum disease are linked to heart disease... but that's a stretch.
  - thomas943 11y ago
    I don't know about acidity, but fluoride has been implicated in many health problems. Here's a list of peer reviewed studies: http://fluoridealert.org/studytracker/?effect=&type=reviews&start_year=&end_year=&show=10&fulltext=&fantranslation= http://fluoridealert.org/studytracker/?effect=&type=reviews&...
    - jschwartzi 11y ago
      In spite of that, it's still nice to not have had any dental fillings or major dental work by the time I turn 30. This will be different from both of my parents. I think I'm happy to trade a minor increase in some other risks for the ability to eat without pain.
      - juliangregorian 11y ago
        Cool anecdote, but you know what would be even better? If we had a choice.
        TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
        You do have a choice. If fluoride scares you so much, stop brushing your teeth and buy a water filter. Oh, and eat a diet that has no carbohydrates in it.
        juliangregorian 11y ago
        Cute answer, but I, along with the entire non-toddler population, don't ingest toothpaste. HN's propensity for "don't like it? Just buy this gadget/start your own company/move to Somalia"-style rhetoric also makes an appearance. I have no idea what you meant with the carbohydrate comment if you wouldn't mind explaining. Oh and thanks for the down vote, but this isn't reddit.
        TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
        > Cute answer, but I, along with the entire non-toddler population, don't ingest toothpaste. You do ingest toothpaste, albeit only small amounts. Much like you ingest mouthwash, you just try to keep it to a minimum. > HN's propensity for "don't like it? Just buy this gadget/start your own company/move to Somalia"-style rhetoric also makes an appearance. What else can I suggest? In a democratic society that is your choice. You can fight to change the law, or you can work around it. > I have no idea what you meant with the carbohydrate comment if you wouldn't mind explaining. Since humans developed agriculture and started consuming large amounts of carbohydrates, they have experienced tooth decay. Fluoride is necessary to prevent it. > Oh and thanks for the down vote, but this isn't reddit. This discussion is completely off-topic and your comments are unhelpful. A downvote is justifiable.

AlbertoGP 11y ago

tl;dr: she's been introducing slightly healthier products and sales have stoppend falling.

dylanjermiah 11y ago
Thank you. I can't put my finger on it but the first 1/4th of the article through me off.
- raldi 11y ago
  It's because the headline teases you with the whisper that she was right about something, presumably controversial, but then the articles dances around for ages before revealing what it is.
- deelowe 11y ago
  Is there a term for this kind of "journalism?" I've heard it described before as being journalism for journalists or that the journalists have to fill a certain amount of space, so simple articles become wordy and tedious. I see it all the time and hate it, but don't know how to describe it.
  - adam419 11y ago
    Similar to the agency problem except it's not a misalignment between managers and shareholders but between "operators" ie journalists and consumers. The journalism suits the interest of the journalists and their managers and not the reader.
  - baconner 11y ago
    Yes, I believe the term is "churnalism." Stories which are primarily PR barely disguised. PR reps pitch stories to journalists and get them curated access to write a story. Lazy journalists go along needing to churn out stories regularly.
InclinedPlane 11y ago
It's incredibly bizarre how plain old fashioned common sense business practices (be responsive to customer needs, sell things that turn a profit) are somehow seen as innovative and unique.

golergka 11y ago

Surprise: capitalism actually works and makes companies follow consumer wishes. If consumers actually vote for these wishes with their wallets, of course.

manishsharan 11y ago
Pardon me , but you seem have to got the terms "free market economy" and "capitalism" mixed up. Free market economy and capitalism may be entwined but they mean very different things and they cannot be used as synonyms of each other.
- JesperRavn 11y ago
  They are synonyms. The field of economics (the only field that could legitimately claim to give exact definitions to these terms) uses them interchangeably, and tends not to care about classification or exact verbal definitions, but rather focuses on the implications of various mathematical models. If there is ambiguity in a verbal definition, it can be clarified by writing down a mathematical model, not by endless debates about the meaning of words or classification of the economies of different nations.
  - cromulent 11y ago
    My experience of economics as a social science is the opposite - that it does not relate specifically to mathematical models. For example, the distinction between a mixed economy and pure capitalism is very clear.
    - JesperRavn 11y ago
      In my experience (Economics PhD) the term "command economy" is used to describe a theoretical extreme where the government dictates all consumption and production decisions, while "free market", unqualified, refers to the situation where the government only enforces property rights. "Pure capitalism" would be a synonym for "free market" although it's rarely used academically, I guess because the term capitalism is a lot less descriptive that "free market". Terms like "mixed economy" just refer to somewhere in between these two extremes. As I said, economists are not particularly interested in giving things accurate names, or classifying them. They mighty do this occasionally, as is necessary especially when communicating with people outside the field, but the field itself relies mainly on mathematical models, not sociological categories. That is why I feel the need to correct someone who, speaking with an authoritative tone, claims to know that "free market" and "capitalism" have precise and different meanings.

Eric_WVGG 11y ago

I first learned about Nooyl after reading this PA comic trilogy back in '11 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/01/03 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/01/03 …so nice to hear that her cult is still working out

gumby 11y ago
That comic is right on. I remember being shocked when I met the lead engineer on Pringles. He was understandably quite proud of the engineering problems they'd solved. I shouldn't have been shocked. He is a food engineer. Sounded like a joke title, but the supermarket shelves have more engineering in them as the shelves of Best Buy. I threw in the towel and pretty much buy raw food, bread from bakeries that can't afford all the soy supplements etc. The manufactured stuff I guy (bread, butter etc) costs a lot more because the labor content of the food is higher. Luckily I can afford it. I am morally unclear on the value of the engineered food. On one hand it's true, we have calories and vitamins, fibre etc in the hands of people who in an earlier age couldn't afford it. On the other hand the nutritional value available to poorer people is still lower than the wealthy.

marcusgarvey 11y ago

>“The consumer has turned the definition [of healthy] upside down,” she says. “If it is non-GMO, natural, or organic, but high in sodium and high in sugar and fat, it’s okay.” True and important to note when you're grocery shopping. Organic, natural, non-GMO do not mean that thing you're holding in your hand is actually good for you.

jkestner 11y ago
I wish someone would start a no-added-sugar movement. I have a sweet tooth, but the amount of sugar added to even fruit products disgusts me. Dried mango without sugar costs 2x. Raisin bran does not need more sugar. That's the point of the raisins! I like creamer in my coffee, but I cut it with milk.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  The problem with "no sugar added" labels is they allow the use of things that happen to contain a lot of sugar, like apple and grape juices. It's just as misleading as many of the other call-out labels.
  - jkestner 11y ago
    To you and siblings, true. That speaks to a need to stop misleading consumers with marketing terms that don't mean what they mean. I'm speaking more from my personal taste than from public health - I just don't want my food to be so sweet. The industry has jacked up sugar and salt content, in all its forms, to where what the mass market demands is well outside my taste. (Another example - my local coffeehouse has a half-sweet latte drink which is itself almost too sweet. I'm guessing the full-sweetness version makes room for more cane syrup by taking out actual coffee.) Relevant read: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?partner=rss&pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary...
- goodJobWalrus 11y ago
  Since you mentioned dried fruit twice, I thought you might find interesting that WHO recommends counting dried fruit as added sugar (also honey and natural syrups, such as maple, in addition to what we usually count as added sugar).

Nano2rad 11y ago

Finding faults just to show the authority just like rhetorical questions. Rectification of those "insignificant infractions" need not make the company or product better

ars 11y ago

I wonder about this article. They say people are buying less orange juice because of the sugar. But I think they are buying less because it's so crazy expensive. I know that's why I stopped.

agumonkey 11y ago
I tried to go from Sodas to processed <fruit> juice, but doctors explained that the sugar content was similar. I then tried to by raw oranges but couldn't find anything worth eating. Acid like a lemon, crooked, dry almost solid, skin ripping the fruit apart ... Nothing like my memories when I could peel an orange and enjoy the delicious slices one by one. To get 'normal' oranges I had to seek for expensive packages.
- gboss 11y ago
  Don't give up on oranges! There are many different varieties out there and you may not have found one you like yet. Also tangelos can be sweeter. While oranges are usually sold year round in grocery stores, they actually have a harvest season. In North America oranges are in season November through May. I use find the best oranges around December to February. Valencia oranges are best for juicing rather than eating and navel oranges are easiest to peel. A good orange is hard to beat!
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    I love orange, and almost anything edible. I suspect current production strategy to lower quality drastically in exchange for lifespan and other logistic qualities.

janj 11y ago

I don't think there's much question that this company is harmful to societies and individuals around the world. Does it make sense for people other than shareholders to admire this person?

johnohara 11y ago

It's breathtaking to consider the amount of shelf-space that Pepsi products occupy. Pepsi, Frito-Lay, Doritos, Tostitos, Gatorade, Aquafina, Tropicana, Quaker Oats, not to mention Lipton, 7-Up, Mountain Dew and Naked. It's a planet with its own gravity and atmosphere. It takes a special perspective to sell $66B worth of product while blaming consumers for their inability to discern healthy food. On the plus side tho', their production requirements oftentimes bring state-of-the-art processing facilities to areas lacking in, or in desperate need of, clean water and filtration. Parts of India come to mind.

nameiscarl 11y ago

> major activist investor: Nelson Peltz I wish the press would do the responsible thing and use the proper words for those things: "corporate raiders". Giving into establishment's newspeak is not doing anyone a favor. And let questionable people do the toxic thing they do (destroying companies for his own interest) while feeling good about themselves. For now, I chose to keep away from any media that uses those lying words (such the ones one would use to cover up for torture, bombings, etc). Noted: Fortune is in the no read list.