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Exactly. But you will be told that you are policing choices, restricting freedoms, or even oppressing people for pointing out that social expectations exist. Be

Exactly. But you will be told that you are policing choices, restricting freedoms, or even oppressing people for pointing out that social expectations exist. Because of the natural process of selection, the ideology of social neoliberalism has reached its peak in the last 20 years. Choices of the individual are reflexively defended in every case, because the framing of individuality won; it was the framing most rewarded by those social groups with the most power.

icebraining 11y ago
Can you please point out an example of someone being accused of oppressing people for pointing out that social expectations exist? If that is so widespread, I'm sure the web will provide plenty to link to. I'm asking because I feel you and I live in a different reality. The concept of gender roles and its restrictions on free personal choice is, as far as I know, completely accepted by the mainstream, and while I'm sure there are dissenters, the idea that they are the dominant opinion is baffling to me. HuffPost, not exactly a fringe publication, has had a dozen or so posts on it the past week alone: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/gender-roles/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/gender-roles/ This is not to say gender roles or other social expectations are dead - of course not, they're extremely powerful. But I certainly don't agree that it's taboo to point it out.
- detcader 11y ago
  Sure, here's a single example [0]. It's true that in principle I should have provided examples to begin with... [0] http://feministcurrent.com/9226/johns-are-now-an-oppressed-sexual-minority/ http://feministcurrent.com/9226/johns-are-now-an-oppressed-s...
  - icebraining 11y ago
    I have to admit I don't understand your example. The only people being accused of oppression are the legislators of the bill in question. I don't see anyone being accused of oppression for pointing out that social expectations exist. Who exactly is doing such pointing in that example?
    - detcader 11y ago
      Feminists point out the social expection of the availability of women's bodies for use. They have been and will continue to be accused of oppressing and marginalizing johns. It's a straightforward situation in which johns are identified as engaging in unnecessarily "taboo" sexual behavior by society, just like lesbians and gay men, and thus you should afford them the same consideration and lack of criticism if you are a Good Liberal. Feminists who point out objectification and the expectation of sexual access are slapped with the label "SWERFs" (sex-worker exclusionary radical feminists). Meghan Murphy writes quite a lot about it so see her other pieces.
icebraining 11y ago
To reinforce my previous post, around here there's now a new ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgQF8lZHjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgQF8lZHjk It's in Portuguese, but essentially it's about kids coming home and saying that their school colleagues had to them that (1) her mother was too old, (2) that they aren't her "real" parents (she's obviously adopted), and (3) that he shouldn't have two dads, and it ends up with them hugging each other. When Coke, one of the more important symbols of the dominant system, has an ad about social expectations and people defying them, it's kind of hard to argue that it's not a well accepted concept!

icebraining 11y ago

Can you please point out an example of someone being accused of oppressing people for pointing out that social expectations exist? If that is so widespread, I'm sure the web will provide plenty to link to. I'm asking because I feel you and I live in a different reality. The concept of gender roles and its restrictions on free personal choice is, as far as I know, completely accepted by the mainstream, and while I'm sure there are dissenters, the idea that they are the dominant opinion is baffling to me. HuffPost, not exactly a fringe publication, has had a dozen or so posts on it the past week alone: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/gender-roles/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/gender-roles/ This is not to say gender roles or other social expectations are dead - of course not, they're extremely powerful. But I certainly don't agree that it's taboo to point it out.

detcader 11y ago
Sure, here's a single example [0]. It's true that in principle I should have provided examples to begin with... [0] http://feministcurrent.com/9226/johns-are-now-an-oppressed-sexual-minority/ http://feministcurrent.com/9226/johns-are-now-an-oppressed-s...
- icebraining 11y ago
  I have to admit I don't understand your example. The only people being accused of oppression are the legislators of the bill in question. I don't see anyone being accused of oppression for pointing out that social expectations exist. Who exactly is doing such pointing in that example?
  - detcader 11y ago
    Feminists point out the social expection of the availability of women's bodies for use. They have been and will continue to be accused of oppressing and marginalizing johns. It's a straightforward situation in which johns are identified as engaging in unnecessarily "taboo" sexual behavior by society, just like lesbians and gay men, and thus you should afford them the same consideration and lack of criticism if you are a Good Liberal. Feminists who point out objectification and the expectation of sexual access are slapped with the label "SWERFs" (sex-worker exclusionary radical feminists). Meghan Murphy writes quite a lot about it so see her other pieces.

icebraining 11y ago

To reinforce my previous post, around here there's now a new ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgQF8lZHjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgQF8lZHjk It's in Portuguese, but essentially it's about kids coming home and saying that their school colleagues had to them that (1) her mother was too old, (2) that they aren't her "real" parents (she's obviously adopted), and (3) that he shouldn't have two dads, and it ends up with them hugging each other. When Coke, one of the more important symbols of the dominant system, has an ad about social expectations and people defying them, it's kind of hard to argue that it's not a well accepted concept!