6 ms·

They look nice, I want to look nice. They feel powerful, I want to feel powerful. Men's shoes are boring, I don't want to be boring. That's the appeal for me.

They look nice, I want to look nice. They feel powerful, I want to feel powerful. Men's shoes are boring, I don't want to be boring. That's the appeal for me. Everyone is different, though.

the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
> They look nice, I want to look nice. They feel powerful, I want to feel powerful. Men's shoes are boring, I don't want to be boring. I'm sorry, but that makes very little sense. If you want to look nice then you need to go by what society judges as nice and society does not consider a man with heels to "look nice".
- throwaway94105 11y ago
  That's only true if you're wearing them out and trying to please others. Society doesn't inform my preferences at home nor does it see what I'm wearing behind closed doors. Plus, with the right body type and shoes, you too could look quite nice in heels. Or full drag. Except I'm not into that but you are free to do as you like. Edit: I haven't been able to post for an hour so I have nowhere else to put this: sorry Silverstorm I'm 6'3". Doesn't mean I don't like being taller though.
- sjolsen 11y ago
  You're making the assumption that by "nice," he means "what society judges as nice," rather than what he personally considers to look nice, and that assumption is almost certainly wrong.
- wahnfrieden 11y ago
  Some people dress for themselves or for a core few others. Lowest common denominator doesn't rule all valid aesthetics. Anyway one recent popular menswear designer, Rick Owens, wears heels: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg0ahygW5j1qazwkm.jpg http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg0ahygW5j1qazwkm.jpg
- tjradcliffe 11y ago
  > you need to go by what society judges as nice Why? You've been down-voted, probably because this assertion seems somewhere between weird and offensive to most people here, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you believe it. This is particularly relevant to HN because most of the people here are interested in innovation, and innovation comes from precisely deviating from the standards of society. As Henry Ford famously remarked, "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." This is the reception that innovators of all kinds get, and currently men's dress is incredibly restricted. We aren't quite stuck in Victorian days, but the diminishment of acceptable fashion choice for men in the past 200 years has been huge. In 1800 a man could still wear colourful clothing, jewelry, and makeup. Fifty years later, a man could wear clothes that would shock no-one if seen on the street today, and nothing else. I don't quite buy "the Enlightenment" as the whole answer, or even part of the answer, but there is no doubt that cultural shifts around that time had the effect of putting all men in uniform clothing. Think about that for a minute: women are allowed to wear almost anything today. Men are given a tiny number of acceptable choices, and no one much minds. I'm considered extravagant because I sometimes wear a bright red blazer to the theatre, which would be permitted if I were gay, but when I show up with my girlfriend it gets me insulted. 200 years ago men who were a hell of a lot more manly than me wore far more extravagant clothing and no one batted an eye (except maybe a few women who thought they were particularly attractive dressed like that.) This is a lousy situation for straight men in the modern world: we deserve to be more than uniformed ciphers in the public eye, and rejecting society's judgement of what looks nice is a necessary step to take, just as rejecting society's judgement of what suitable entertainment is was necessary to the radio and film industry, rejecting society's judgement of what suitable travel technology is was necessary to the automobile and aircraft industry was, and so on. And you better believe that conservatives were frequently strongly against those innovations as well. Innovation is driven by people with the courage to reject society's judgement and replace it with their own, and we should honour that courage, not denigrate it.
  - Crito 11y ago
    > "You've been down-voted, probably because this assertion seems somewhere between weird and offensive to most people here, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you believe it." I have come to believe it because I have come to realize that it is the only notion of "nice" that has real utility. I only wish somebody had explained that to me earlier in life. I spent too much of my youth disadvantaging myself socially by failing to prioritize how I present myself to others.
- rhizome 11y ago
  I'm sorry, but that makes very little sense. Which is a testament to its power, since a valid reason broke your brain's entire sense of "reasonable." You don't get it because you can't get it, you simply don't have the cognitive capacity for the idea, or else you would have allowed for it to make some sense, even if it didn't appeal to you.
modarts 11y ago
Had no idea that straight men wearing high heels was a 'thing' until just now...
- throwawaykf05 11y ago
  And right there's why this is relevant to HN: I think we just found a niche market that needs to be catered to, folks [1]. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinky_Boots_(film) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinky_Boots_(film)
stefantalpalaru 11y ago
> They feel powerful, I want to feel powerful. What's powerful about walking on your feet's balls and toes and abusing your body ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_footwear#Health_effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_footwear#Health_eff... ) ?
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  Well, height. I don't wear stilettos, but plenty of studies have shown height is both correlated to perceived power and actual power.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  This is on about the same rhetorical level as "Why do you kids like Apple Jacks when they don't taste like apples?"
  - stefantalpalaru 11y ago
    Really? You missed the whole "self-harm is not a manifestation of power" argument?
    - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
      No, I got it, but it doesn't actually follow. Popular perception has no correlation to health value. Saying that something is bad for you does not disprove the idea that it is often perceived as "powerful," just like Apple Jacks can (I assume) taste good without tasting like apples. Note that I'm not saying that wearing high heels is a good idea.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  As a male, heterosexual ballroom and latin dancer -- who has never worn heels higher than men's 1.5" Latin dance shoes -- I totally get that there can be a real powerful, masculine feeling from walking strongly on the balls & toes. Health effects are a different issue, and you aren't going to learn feeling from Wikipedia, or intellectually at all. It is experiential.

They look nice, I want to look nice. They feel powerful, I want to feel powerful. Men's shoes are boring, I don't want to be boring. That's the appeal for me. Everyone is different, though.

the_mitsuhiko 11y ago

> They look nice, I want to look nice. They feel powerful, I want to feel powerful. Men's shoes are boring, I don't want to be boring. I'm sorry, but that makes very little sense. If you want to look nice then you need to go by what society judges as nice and society does not consider a man with heels to "look nice".

throwaway94105 11y ago
That's only true if you're wearing them out and trying to please others. Society doesn't inform my preferences at home nor does it see what I'm wearing behind closed doors. Plus, with the right body type and shoes, you too could look quite nice in heels. Or full drag. Except I'm not into that but you are free to do as you like. Edit: I haven't been able to post for an hour so I have nowhere else to put this: sorry Silverstorm I'm 6'3". Doesn't mean I don't like being taller though.
sjolsen 11y ago
You're making the assumption that by "nice," he means "what society judges as nice," rather than what he personally considers to look nice, and that assumption is almost certainly wrong.
wahnfrieden 11y ago
Some people dress for themselves or for a core few others. Lowest common denominator doesn't rule all valid aesthetics. Anyway one recent popular menswear designer, Rick Owens, wears heels: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg0ahygW5j1qazwkm.jpg http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg0ahygW5j1qazwkm.jpg
tjradcliffe 11y ago
> you need to go by what society judges as nice Why? You've been down-voted, probably because this assertion seems somewhere between weird and offensive to most people here, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you believe it. This is particularly relevant to HN because most of the people here are interested in innovation, and innovation comes from precisely deviating from the standards of society. As Henry Ford famously remarked, "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." This is the reception that innovators of all kinds get, and currently men's dress is incredibly restricted. We aren't quite stuck in Victorian days, but the diminishment of acceptable fashion choice for men in the past 200 years has been huge. In 1800 a man could still wear colourful clothing, jewelry, and makeup. Fifty years later, a man could wear clothes that would shock no-one if seen on the street today, and nothing else. I don't quite buy "the Enlightenment" as the whole answer, or even part of the answer, but there is no doubt that cultural shifts around that time had the effect of putting all men in uniform clothing. Think about that for a minute: women are allowed to wear almost anything today. Men are given a tiny number of acceptable choices, and no one much minds. I'm considered extravagant because I sometimes wear a bright red blazer to the theatre, which would be permitted if I were gay, but when I show up with my girlfriend it gets me insulted. 200 years ago men who were a hell of a lot more manly than me wore far more extravagant clothing and no one batted an eye (except maybe a few women who thought they were particularly attractive dressed like that.) This is a lousy situation for straight men in the modern world: we deserve to be more than uniformed ciphers in the public eye, and rejecting society's judgement of what looks nice is a necessary step to take, just as rejecting society's judgement of what suitable entertainment is was necessary to the radio and film industry, rejecting society's judgement of what suitable travel technology is was necessary to the automobile and aircraft industry was, and so on. And you better believe that conservatives were frequently strongly against those innovations as well. Innovation is driven by people with the courage to reject society's judgement and replace it with their own, and we should honour that courage, not denigrate it.
- Crito 11y ago
  > "You've been down-voted, probably because this assertion seems somewhere between weird and offensive to most people here, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you believe it." I have come to believe it because I have come to realize that it is the only notion of "nice" that has real utility. I only wish somebody had explained that to me earlier in life. I spent too much of my youth disadvantaging myself socially by failing to prioritize how I present myself to others.
rhizome 11y ago
I'm sorry, but that makes very little sense. Which is a testament to its power, since a valid reason broke your brain's entire sense of "reasonable." You don't get it because you can't get it, you simply don't have the cognitive capacity for the idea, or else you would have allowed for it to make some sense, even if it didn't appeal to you.

modarts 11y ago

Had no idea that straight men wearing high heels was a 'thing' until just now...

throwawaykf05 11y ago
And right there's why this is relevant to HN: I think we just found a niche market that needs to be catered to, folks [1]. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinky_Boots_(film) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinky_Boots_(film)

stefantalpalaru 11y ago

> They feel powerful, I want to feel powerful. What's powerful about walking on your feet's balls and toes and abusing your body ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_footwear#Health_effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_footwear#Health_eff... ) ?

sliverstorm 11y ago
Well, height. I don't wear stilettos, but plenty of studies have shown height is both correlated to perceived power and actual power.
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
This is on about the same rhetorical level as "Why do you kids like Apple Jacks when they don't taste like apples?"
- stefantalpalaru 11y ago
  Really? You missed the whole "self-harm is not a manifestation of power" argument?
  - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
    No, I got it, but it doesn't actually follow. Popular perception has no correlation to health value. Saying that something is bad for you does not disprove the idea that it is often perceived as "powerful," just like Apple Jacks can (I assume) taste good without tasting like apples. Note that I'm not saying that wearing high heels is a good idea.
dragonwriter 11y ago
As a male, heterosexual ballroom and latin dancer -- who has never worn heels higher than men's 1.5" Latin dance shoes -- I totally get that there can be a real powerful, masculine feeling from walking strongly on the balls & toes. Health effects are a different issue, and you aren't going to learn feeling from Wikipedia, or intellectually at all. It is experiential.