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The author was doing great right up until the last paragraph. His proposed solution is silly because it makes no distinction between jobs for which a universit

The author was doing great right up until the last paragraph. His proposed solution is silly because it makes no distinction between jobs for which a university education is essential and those for which it is irrelevant. Then there is also the large grey area in between, in which a university education in certain fields might be useful but not essential. What he would do is abolish the right of those professions in which such an education is essential from applying the same standard he lauds earlier: that physicians must attend medical school. For engineers, a university education with a specialty in engineering is exactly what medical school is to physicians. Many people here believe that a university education is not required to be a computer programmer, and I agree. But programmer is a vocation, like plumber or firefighter; it requires specialized skills and experience to do well but does not require a university education. If you spent 3 months learning one language and one or two common frameworks for making e-commerce sites, you are reasonably qualified to work on e-commerce sites for companies that use that language and framework. However, being a programmer and being an engineer are not the same; an engineer has been educated both more broadly and more deeply, and should be capable of solving larger and more difficult problems, designing whole systems, and in general should have the education and experience to understand new problems more thoroughly. It's the difference between the architect who designs a building (or one of its systems) and the construction crew who erects it. Both are essential, but they have (properly) different qualifications. There are many other fields where some sort of education is required. I agree that many of those fields conveniently piggyback on university education (usually with a particular field of study requirement) when other similar mechanisms might do as well. But the notion that such an education is universally irrelevant is absurd. If the author wants people without university education to be paid as much as people with it, the solution is not legislation. Instead, he should hire them.

mrestko 11y ago
I also think that there is no practical way his solution could work, at least not with the laws the way they are. How would you ask people to explain gaps in their work history? Are you no longer allowed to consider why someone was unemployed for 4 or 5 consecutive years? Additionally, I don't think you can easily do general intelligence testing for a job. You have to be able to show that every question relates to job performance and that it does not cause a disproportionate impact on the hiring of people from protected classes.
randomdata 11y ago
His proposed solution is silly because it makes no distinction between jobs for which a university education is essential and those for which it is irrelevant. His solution is to evaluate people as people, not by external indicators. If it so difficult to tell if someone has a university education or not without having to explicitly ask, then perhaps it isn't as essential as you seem to think?
- nmrm2 11y ago
  > If it so difficult to tell if someone has a university education or not without having to explicitly ask, then perhaps it isn't as essential as you seem to think? It is trivially easy to think up questions that any Computer Science student from a non-crappy university will be able to answer, but someone without a degree probably will likely not be able to answer. Just pick a particularly challenging problem off of an Algorithms or Linear Algebra final and hand them a textbook and an hour. The question is how to ask questions that matter for a particular job. If the job is hacking out an e-commerce site, it's really easy. If the job is designing a distributed system for real-time processing of data at 100s of GB/s of data that nobody has tried processing at that speed before, the single set of questions that tell you whether this person is competent is far less obvious. What you really need is to engage with the person in weeks or months worth of examinations on various subjects. Fortunately, university courses have midterms and finals that do exactly this.
  - greenyoda 11y ago
    "If the job is designing a distributed system for real-time processing of data at 100s of GB/s of data that nobody has tried processing at that speed before, the single set of questions that tell you whether this person is competent is far less obvious. ... Fortunately, university courses have midterms and finals that do exactly this." But solving problems that nobody has solved before is the kind of job that's usually filled by senior developers, not by recent graduates. By the time you have 5-10 years of work experience, the things you learned during your working career probably play a much more important role than the stuff you learned in college. If I've spent the last ten years actually designing distributed systems, why does it matter whether I've gone to college or not?

mrestko 11y ago

I also think that there is no practical way his solution could work, at least not with the laws the way they are. How would you ask people to explain gaps in their work history? Are you no longer allowed to consider why someone was unemployed for 4 or 5 consecutive years? Additionally, I don't think you can easily do general intelligence testing for a job. You have to be able to show that every question relates to job performance and that it does not cause a disproportionate impact on the hiring of people from protected classes.

randomdata 11y ago

His proposed solution is silly because it makes no distinction between jobs for which a university education is essential and those for which it is irrelevant. His solution is to evaluate people as people, not by external indicators. If it so difficult to tell if someone has a university education or not without having to explicitly ask, then perhaps it isn't as essential as you seem to think?

nmrm2 11y ago
> If it so difficult to tell if someone has a university education or not without having to explicitly ask, then perhaps it isn't as essential as you seem to think? It is trivially easy to think up questions that any Computer Science student from a non-crappy university will be able to answer, but someone without a degree probably will likely not be able to answer. Just pick a particularly challenging problem off of an Algorithms or Linear Algebra final and hand them a textbook and an hour. The question is how to ask questions that matter for a particular job. If the job is hacking out an e-commerce site, it's really easy. If the job is designing a distributed system for real-time processing of data at 100s of GB/s of data that nobody has tried processing at that speed before, the single set of questions that tell you whether this person is competent is far less obvious. What you really need is to engage with the person in weeks or months worth of examinations on various subjects. Fortunately, university courses have midterms and finals that do exactly this.
- greenyoda 11y ago
  "If the job is designing a distributed system for real-time processing of data at 100s of GB/s of data that nobody has tried processing at that speed before, the single set of questions that tell you whether this person is competent is far less obvious. ... Fortunately, university courses have midterms and finals that do exactly this." But solving problems that nobody has solved before is the kind of job that's usually filled by senior developers, not by recent graduates. By the time you have 5-10 years of work experience, the things you learned during your working career probably play a much more important role than the stuff you learned in college. If I've spent the last ten years actually designing distributed systems, why does it matter whether I've gone to college or not?