6 ms·

Ask HN: How to consistently generate traffic and new customers for Ramamia?

31 points by jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Hi HN, over the past few months,Mark Bao and I have been trying to figure out how to exactly launch Ramamia, our family sharing app. Link here: http://staging.ramamia.com We've been in beta for a number of months and this is our kind of final product. At first, we were going to go for a premium model, as in: the only plan we have is a $40 a year or $5 a month plan, with a 21-day free trial. We're not sure how we will generate steady incoming traffic. So I thought--why not use free as a marketing tool? So thus--freemium. We're just not sure about how we are going to generate a stream of incoming traffic for our app, which is a big problem. Should we go freemium or stick with premium? Keep in mind... with a freemium model, we'd restrict a number of things like # of photos per month, remove video functionality, etc. but there will be still a lower conversion rate to prem... though we might get more leads from 'free' valprop.

markbao 17y ago
Clickable: http://staging.ramamia.com http://staging.ramamia.com
- karanbhangui 17y ago
  Like i've suggested before, Add a significant bottom margin to the footer. there's no reason it should be squished up like that. otherwise, looking great :)
- ericd 17y ago
  Looks nice, who does your graphic design?
  - markbao 17y ago
    I did the graphic design.
vaksel 17y ago
do you guys really have 3,000 users? Or is that a marketing number? If yes, then you guys should just focus on building a viral loop
- jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
  Admin stats page screenshot: http://i50.tinypic.com/2dwcg1s.png http://i50.tinypic.com/2dwcg1s.png
  - fnid 17y ago
    That's about 4 photos per user. Doesn't seem like a lot. How many of your users have over 100 photos, 200, 300? Those are the ones you want to concentrate on. Ask them how to make the service better. They are your power users. Most everyone else is just a lurker.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
dmix 17y ago
If you really believe your offering value, then my vote is for premium right away. Freemium isn't really a marketing tool, its more of a business model. A 30-60 day free trials or 30% off for a year might help grab early adopters. Of course it will always come down to trial and error. I'd launch it asap and see what works for your market. For pricing your users know better then us! Regarding traffic, I'd try SEM with some nice landing pages to find the right marketing message. Besides that, the top of this chart shows the other online marketing approaches. http://www.flickr.com/photos/500hats/577630547/sizes/o/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/500hats/577630547/sizes/o/
- markbao 17y ago
  Sweet graphic, thanks for that. Hmm, I've heard it both ways. 'Freemium isn't a business model, it's a marketing tool!' 'Freemium isn't a marketing tool, it's a business model! ' The problem is that we'd like to launch (since we're doing this big press launch and stuff) with a more perfected version of our model, so we want to find the best way that works first before launching, you know? Thanks very much!
  - dmix 17y ago
    >Hmm, I've heard it both ways. 'Freemium isn't a business model, it's a marketing tool!' I'd say it's a marketing tool if no one else has sold what your offering for free before; so the idea of it being free is engaging and people tell their friends For a business model I think it only makes sense for products that are easily consumed and need to be accessible with little commitment. > we want to find the best way that works first before launching I'm with Steve Blank on this one. You won't find answers in the building. You have to go out and find what people are willing to pay for.
  - jhancock 17y ago
    I'd recommend going straight to premium with 30-day trial. Its too much work to segment and manage the fremium feature set.
    - prawn 17y ago
jmonegro 17y ago
you might find http://www.startups.com http://www.startups.com useful for these types of questions.
- gridspy 17y ago
  I find that http://answers.onstartups.com/ http://answers.onstartups.com/ has a more technical audience, with better quality Qs and As
dwynings 17y ago
I've always liked the idea of a freemium system. I think one way that could really help it spread is to incorporate some kind of affiliate program. For every paying user that the person brings in, they get X% off for a premium account that month. Referrals are likely to be huge in your market.
- markbao 17y ago
  Thanks! We have this implemented already. If a user refers another family that becomes a paying family, then they get 25% off their yearly price—for life.
gridspy 17y ago
You have a changing feature area on your front page. Please either add next/prev buttons and an easy way to navigate it or break it out into normal HTML. It currently changes faster than I can comfortably read. Edit: Oh, you have navigation - but it is visually detached from the feature area (looks attached to the area above) so I missed it.
- slig 17y ago
  Agreed, it's too fast and confusing.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
mattmaroon 17y ago
First off I'd change the name. It makes no sense, and is hard to pronounce at a glance. Getting people back to your app is step #1 in both engagement and virality, and your name is harmful there. You seem to be about sharing stuff with family (which is inherently viral) so make your name reflect that. You chose some stock photography designed to play in Middle America, make your URL match. The nice thing with this type of product is that people upload photos and videos of family members mainly to share with other family members, so right there you have inherently viral behavior. Your job now is to make it as frictionless as possible. Add in those viral channels. Make it easy to share via Facebook or email. I can't sign up for the product to see what you have enabled, but you should have Facebook Connect at the very least. I'd use Google Friend Connect, Yahoo's equivalent, and MSN's as well to make it easy to import contacts and email them a photo or link to a group of photos with one click. Do you have embeds? Can people embed a family video on their blog trivially from your site? Can they share it via Twitter with a click? Just spend some time figuring out how your users want to share these things (this is one of those rare instances where simply asking them will return high value info) and make that easy as pie. So there's your traffic. Freemium seems to be almost a necessity here. I really can't think of an alternative monetization model that makes sense. Premium-only is death to viral spread. If you decide to go that route, I'd assume you'll have to purchase traffic via AdSense and the like. Get some metrics in place early so you can calculate CPA and RPU. Test with a few thousand bucks worth of ads. If your RPU turns out to be a large multiple of CPA you're set. Just know that with premium only you're aiming for relatively low traffic and relatively high RPU. Not a bad way to go for the right product, but you need to be insanely metrics-driven to make that work.
- markbao 17y ago
  Wow, Matt—thank you very much for the thorough suggestions. > First off I'd change the name. It makes no sense, and is hard to pronounce at a glance. Hell yeah, this has been a gut instinct since day 1. I've been trying to brainstorm new names, but have come up with nothing. I think a name change is a good idea, though, for sure. > but you should have Facebook Connect at the very least. Yeah, we're tied into Facebook Connect and Twitter: http://screenshots.markbao.com/a137e44e036028bb19f171c201b2fc05.png http://screenshots.markbao.com/a137e44e036028bb19f171c201b2f... -> http://screenshots.markbao.com/082acda74154efb50e52d95a11a1c85f.png http://screenshots.markbao.com/082acda74154efb50e52d95a11a1c... -> http://screenshots.markbao.com/b2baae910327fd86f658f2fd29c4675d.png http://screenshots.markbao.com/b2baae910327fd86f658f2fd29c46... > Do you have embeds? Can people embed a family video on their blog trivially from your site? That's an oversight. Thanks, putting that on the imp list. > Just spend some time figuring out how your users want to share these things (this is one of those rare instances where simply asking them will return high value info) and make that easy as pie. Definitely a good idea. I think we put together a Ramamia user survey a while ago but never acted upon it for some reason. Probably a good time to get that rolling. > So there's your traffic. Freemium seems to be almost a necessity here. I really can't think of an alternative monetization model that makes sense. You're probably right. I had a gut instinct that while Premium would be the easiest and most reliable way to get conversions (no unpredictability in the conversions, in some way) it would be restricting to growth and customer acquisition. I think we've come to the consensus that freemium is probably the way to go. Thank you again, Matt!
drp 17y ago
Do something that is pressworthy outside of just 'x startup has launched.' Playing off current events is always great, but an even better way to gain mindshare among normal people is to get reporters to cite your company any time they talk about related issues. The hard work is figuring out what reporters need that you can provide. They love statistics, and you can always try to get quoted as an expert source on something related to your company. This kind of thing will get your name out there and get you the kind of traffic (and links) you want rather than short bursts of disinterested blog readers.
edw519 17y ago
I have been a Ramamia user for several months and I hate to say it, but I think your execution may be holding you back. It's not flawless and it needs to be. In order to become viral you need raving fans and based upon the experience with my family you don't have that (yet). I described my family's needs and got the recommendation for Ramamia here at hn. I think it's exactly what we need and I'm happy with it for the most part, but haven't seen the same feedback from my family members. Ramamia satisfies my 2 most important requirements perfectly: users don't need logins and passwords, and the site is maintained by anyone in the family, not just me. I know this thread is not for specific feedback and I know that I'm a beta user, but I thought I'd share it anyway since it's so closely related. You guys have also done great work; you deserve to see my feedback in a thread like this instead of an email in case anyone else wants to build upon it... - About half my family members (45 people) have never contributed to the site. I don't even know if they've ever even visited. I suppose this is normal, but I don't know. - The biggest complaint is ease of use. Many members have left the comment "Enter a comment..." because they clicked the "Add Comment" button before entering their text. Then they're embarrassed and don't try again. - When a link is emailed to someone, that link takes them to the post referenced, not the main page heading. All they can see is that post. It's not obviously apparent that by clicking on our family's name that you can go "Home". You should either put a giant "Home" button at the top, or better yet, just have all links go directly to the Home page. Chances are the referenced link is right at the top anyway. - Although it's possible to attach text to a picture, it's not apparent how to attach text to an album, or if you even can. - People have figured out how to post pictures or text, but not both in the same posting. - The comments are not threaded (like here at hn) so it's tough to ask and answer questions and have conversations. - Lots of people have forgotten how to get to the site. You might want to consider a giant sign, "In order to come back here to Ramamia, just click any link in any email from us." - Some family members want to download and share pictures. I have explained that that's not what this site is for. Then they say, "Well then, we should use <xyz> instead." I don't know how to respond to them. - I have 2 accounts for our family (just to see what everyone else sees). Several times I have posted but not gotten an email to the other account. I suspect this was a temporary glitch; it hasn't happened again. Some of this may sound like nit-picking, but you really need to make it idiot proof. They keep having problems where I would never imagine. A family website must always be prepared for non-sophisticated users. Also, I may be expecting too much of my family members. Maybe a lot of them just don't care. I suspect that's the nature of this beast, too. I have been meaning to share this with you guys, but you know how it is, you get busy and then... It's just as well; use this community for feedback. I don't want it to sound like it's all problems. Many family members have shared great pictures and many of us are thrilled. Several cousins have seen childhood pictures of their parents that they never saw before. You guys are doing great work on something that really is important. You should have raving fans; I hope you get them. If you contact me offline, I'll share email addresses with my family members that have had the most difficulty. Feedback from them may help you more than I ever could.
apsurd 17y ago
Why not do both? I'm hustling to get my new app out and I plan to use a kind of "hybrid" system. Perhaps it has a name but the premise is just that you have to attach VALUE to whatever it is you are giving away. If you price something as "FREE" and then give it away, then the user does not feel like he's really getting anything. If you price something for $200.00, and then give it away, well they just got $200 for FREE - AWESOME!! So my current plan of attack is have 3 pricing tiers that all costs money. Then as of now, I'm in "beta" so I have this huge "sale" "this month only" where all users get "PLUS accounts FREE FOR LIFE!". And clearly right there, Plus accounts normally cost $100/yr, so I'm reasoning that a customer would derive more value from signing up than if I had just called the Plus plan "free" with a fat ass zero for the price. So in other words. Be a premium product so everyone understands you are worth something, and then have sales, and reasons to give those oh-so-valuable plans away. HTH
- markbao 17y ago
  Heh, I read about this tactic in the Yes! book. It's a great one. I think it'd be a great tactic to do for a short term marketing run, but labeling a Basic product as $30 a year BUT YOURS FREE!!!1one for the long term might not be so reputable, right? Thanks for your input!
  - apsurd 17y ago
    Yeah, as a once-upon-a-time dreamhost customer, I was pretty annoyed to have paid $119 for a years hosting only to see that they discount it 98% every now and then. Definitely not a good feeling. I think what I'm thinking is more a long the lines of "actually" giving away a non-free plan. So whatever your entry level paid plan is, just lower it a little more, and then be prepared to charge money for it, but anytime you want to do a marketing push, give it away for free. So its not going to be like some secretly free plan. The whole point is to give something of value away for free. I think all customers would appreciate that. Lastly, I like how 37 signals has a lowly-advertised ass-basic free plan. It's still free, but they make it a point to really imply that "it aint all that great". I like this because it implicitly reminds every customer that deals with 37 signals that their product costs money for a reason. It's kind of like thinking about it backwards...why would I think this company is worth anything if they give everything away for free? Actually...thats EXACTLY what I think about dreamhost now. I have to say back in the days I thought dh was a good company because it was better than the godaddy account I came from. But I've come to realize they absolutely whore out their plans (98% wtf) and its literally at a direct cost to their full-paying customers.. (shared hosting) I am officially not a fan of dh and I am that burned enough to leave a negative comment about them in a public forum as I'm doing now ... Give your customers something of value!!
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Here's one idea im just shooting out there for the hell of it. Seriously, it might be absolutely retarded and just designate it as so with comments: Microtransactions. Give people x amount of free videos and x amount of free photo albums. After that, they pay for each one posted (something really small).
- dpcan 17y ago
  It's not all bad. You can buy "credits" and use them for whatever you want, even send them to other family members so they can post on your family page too without paying anything.
  - jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
    hmm, really really interesting. kind of the pay by the drink model. the credits could be pooled for the entire family. eventually could be used for things such as virtual gifts. give credits for incentives such as inviting your family, sharing an item,etc. make credits purchasable in $5 packs and give a few for free to start.
DTrejo 17y ago
The Jones family name you use in your screenshots has some bad connotations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses
djm 17y ago
with regards to the decision you have to make about fremium/premium etc there is one thing I think you need to consider that I can't see anybody else here has mentioned. If a whole family sign up to your site and like it enough to use it they will probably become long term users. After all it would be a pain in the ass for them to try and collectively move to another service. With this in mind, if you go the premium route, it may be in your interests to consider offering a more substantial sign-up discount - a 21 day free trial wouldn't excite me to try out your product. Good luck in any case and keep HN up to date with how you guys are doing :)
joez 17y ago
Just a quick thought, the holiday season (Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Christmas Gifts) is when a lot digital cameras are sold (especially DSLRs this year). You might be able to get some traffic (premium) by writing a blog post on tips on taking family photos, different DSLR settings, poses to try, etc. This is my thought on how to target consumers who just bought/received a fancy camera and need a way to share the thousands of photos they took. That's the quality traffic you want. There might be other ways to target this group?

markbao 17y ago

Clickable: http://staging.ramamia.com http://staging.ramamia.com

karanbhangui 17y ago
Like i've suggested before, Add a significant bottom margin to the footer. there's no reason it should be squished up like that. otherwise, looking great :)
ericd 17y ago
Looks nice, who does your graphic design?
- markbao 17y ago
  I did the graphic design.

vaksel 17y ago

do you guys really have 3,000 users? Or is that a marketing number? If yes, then you guys should just focus on building a viral loop

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Admin stats page screenshot: http://i50.tinypic.com/2dwcg1s.png http://i50.tinypic.com/2dwcg1s.png
- fnid 17y ago
  That's about 4 photos per user. Doesn't seem like a lot. How many of your users have over 100 photos, 200, 300? Those are the ones you want to concentrate on. Ask them how to make the service better. They are your power users. Most everyone else is just a lurker.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

dmix 17y ago

If you really believe your offering value, then my vote is for premium right away. Freemium isn't really a marketing tool, its more of a business model. A 30-60 day free trials or 30% off for a year might help grab early adopters. Of course it will always come down to trial and error. I'd launch it asap and see what works for your market. For pricing your users know better then us! Regarding traffic, I'd try SEM with some nice landing pages to find the right marketing message. Besides that, the top of this chart shows the other online marketing approaches. http://www.flickr.com/photos/500hats/577630547/sizes/o/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/500hats/577630547/sizes/o/

markbao 17y ago
Sweet graphic, thanks for that. Hmm, I've heard it both ways. 'Freemium isn't a business model, it's a marketing tool!' 'Freemium isn't a marketing tool, it's a business model! ' The problem is that we'd like to launch (since we're doing this big press launch and stuff) with a more perfected version of our model, so we want to find the best way that works first before launching, you know? Thanks very much!
- dmix 17y ago
  >Hmm, I've heard it both ways. 'Freemium isn't a business model, it's a marketing tool!' I'd say it's a marketing tool if no one else has sold what your offering for free before; so the idea of it being free is engaging and people tell their friends For a business model I think it only makes sense for products that are easily consumed and need to be accessible with little commitment. > we want to find the best way that works first before launching I'm with Steve Blank on this one. You won't find answers in the building. You have to go out and find what people are willing to pay for.
- jhancock 17y ago
  I'd recommend going straight to premium with 30-day trial. Its too much work to segment and manage the fremium feature set.
  - prawn 17y ago

jmonegro 17y ago

you might find http://www.startups.com http://www.startups.com useful for these types of questions.

gridspy 17y ago
I find that http://answers.onstartups.com/ http://answers.onstartups.com/ has a more technical audience, with better quality Qs and As

dwynings 17y ago

I've always liked the idea of a freemium system. I think one way that could really help it spread is to incorporate some kind of affiliate program. For every paying user that the person brings in, they get X% off for a premium account that month. Referrals are likely to be huge in your market.

markbao 17y ago
Thanks! We have this implemented already. If a user refers another family that becomes a paying family, then they get 25% off their yearly price—for life.

gridspy 17y ago

You have a changing feature area on your front page. Please either add next/prev buttons and an easy way to navigate it or break it out into normal HTML. It currently changes faster than I can comfortably read. Edit: Oh, you have navigation - but it is visually detached from the feature area (looks attached to the area above) so I missed it.

slig 17y ago
Agreed, it's too fast and confusing.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

mattmaroon 17y ago

First off I'd change the name. It makes no sense, and is hard to pronounce at a glance. Getting people back to your app is step #1 in both engagement and virality, and your name is harmful there. You seem to be about sharing stuff with family (which is inherently viral) so make your name reflect that. You chose some stock photography designed to play in Middle America, make your URL match. The nice thing with this type of product is that people upload photos and videos of family members mainly to share with other family members, so right there you have inherently viral behavior. Your job now is to make it as frictionless as possible. Add in those viral channels. Make it easy to share via Facebook or email. I can't sign up for the product to see what you have enabled, but you should have Facebook Connect at the very least. I'd use Google Friend Connect, Yahoo's equivalent, and MSN's as well to make it easy to import contacts and email them a photo or link to a group of photos with one click. Do you have embeds? Can people embed a family video on their blog trivially from your site? Can they share it via Twitter with a click? Just spend some time figuring out how your users want to share these things (this is one of those rare instances where simply asking them will return high value info) and make that easy as pie. So there's your traffic. Freemium seems to be almost a necessity here. I really can't think of an alternative monetization model that makes sense. Premium-only is death to viral spread. If you decide to go that route, I'd assume you'll have to purchase traffic via AdSense and the like. Get some metrics in place early so you can calculate CPA and RPU. Test with a few thousand bucks worth of ads. If your RPU turns out to be a large multiple of CPA you're set. Just know that with premium only you're aiming for relatively low traffic and relatively high RPU. Not a bad way to go for the right product, but you need to be insanely metrics-driven to make that work.

markbao 17y ago
Wow, Matt—thank you very much for the thorough suggestions. > First off I'd change the name. It makes no sense, and is hard to pronounce at a glance. Hell yeah, this has been a gut instinct since day 1. I've been trying to brainstorm new names, but have come up with nothing. I think a name change is a good idea, though, for sure. > but you should have Facebook Connect at the very least. Yeah, we're tied into Facebook Connect and Twitter: http://screenshots.markbao.com/a137e44e036028bb19f171c201b2fc05.png http://screenshots.markbao.com/a137e44e036028bb19f171c201b2f... -> http://screenshots.markbao.com/082acda74154efb50e52d95a11a1c85f.png http://screenshots.markbao.com/082acda74154efb50e52d95a11a1c... -> http://screenshots.markbao.com/b2baae910327fd86f658f2fd29c4675d.png http://screenshots.markbao.com/b2baae910327fd86f658f2fd29c46... > Do you have embeds? Can people embed a family video on their blog trivially from your site? That's an oversight. Thanks, putting that on the imp list. > Just spend some time figuring out how your users want to share these things (this is one of those rare instances where simply asking them will return high value info) and make that easy as pie. Definitely a good idea. I think we put together a Ramamia user survey a while ago but never acted upon it for some reason. Probably a good time to get that rolling. > So there's your traffic. Freemium seems to be almost a necessity here. I really can't think of an alternative monetization model that makes sense. You're probably right. I had a gut instinct that while Premium would be the easiest and most reliable way to get conversions (no unpredictability in the conversions, in some way) it would be restricting to growth and customer acquisition. I think we've come to the consensus that freemium is probably the way to go. Thank you again, Matt!

drp 17y ago

Do something that is pressworthy outside of just 'x startup has launched.' Playing off current events is always great, but an even better way to gain mindshare among normal people is to get reporters to cite your company any time they talk about related issues. The hard work is figuring out what reporters need that you can provide. They love statistics, and you can always try to get quoted as an expert source on something related to your company. This kind of thing will get your name out there and get you the kind of traffic (and links) you want rather than short bursts of disinterested blog readers.

edw519 17y ago

I have been a Ramamia user for several months and I hate to say it, but I think your execution may be holding you back. It's not flawless and it needs to be. In order to become viral you need raving fans and based upon the experience with my family you don't have that (yet). I described my family's needs and got the recommendation for Ramamia here at hn. I think it's exactly what we need and I'm happy with it for the most part, but haven't seen the same feedback from my family members. Ramamia satisfies my 2 most important requirements perfectly: users don't need logins and passwords, and the site is maintained by anyone in the family, not just me. I know this thread is not for specific feedback and I know that I'm a beta user, but I thought I'd share it anyway since it's so closely related. You guys have also done great work; you deserve to see my feedback in a thread like this instead of an email in case anyone else wants to build upon it... - About half my family members (45 people) have never contributed to the site. I don't even know if they've ever even visited. I suppose this is normal, but I don't know. - The biggest complaint is ease of use. Many members have left the comment "Enter a comment..." because they clicked the "Add Comment" button before entering their text. Then they're embarrassed and don't try again. - When a link is emailed to someone, that link takes them to the post referenced, not the main page heading. All they can see is that post. It's not obviously apparent that by clicking on our family's name that you can go "Home". You should either put a giant "Home" button at the top, or better yet, just have all links go directly to the Home page. Chances are the referenced link is right at the top anyway. - Although it's possible to attach text to a picture, it's not apparent how to attach text to an album, or if you even can. - People have figured out how to post pictures or text, but not both in the same posting. - The comments are not threaded (like here at hn) so it's tough to ask and answer questions and have conversations. - Lots of people have forgotten how to get to the site. You might want to consider a giant sign, "In order to come back here to Ramamia, just click any link in any email from us." - Some family members want to download and share pictures. I have explained that that's not what this site is for. Then they say, "Well then, we should use <xyz> instead." I don't know how to respond to them. - I have 2 accounts for our family (just to see what everyone else sees). Several times I have posted but not gotten an email to the other account. I suspect this was a temporary glitch; it hasn't happened again. Some of this may sound like nit-picking, but you really need to make it idiot proof. They keep having problems where I would never imagine. A family website must always be prepared for non-sophisticated users. Also, I may be expecting too much of my family members. Maybe a lot of them just don't care. I suspect that's the nature of this beast, too. I have been meaning to share this with you guys, but you know how it is, you get busy and then... It's just as well; use this community for feedback. I don't want it to sound like it's all problems. Many family members have shared great pictures and many of us are thrilled. Several cousins have seen childhood pictures of their parents that they never saw before. You guys are doing great work on something that really is important. You should have raving fans; I hope you get them. If you contact me offline, I'll share email addresses with my family members that have had the most difficulty. Feedback from them may help you more than I ever could.

apsurd 17y ago

Why not do both? I'm hustling to get my new app out and I plan to use a kind of "hybrid" system. Perhaps it has a name but the premise is just that you have to attach VALUE to whatever it is you are giving away. If you price something as "FREE" and then give it away, then the user does not feel like he's really getting anything. If you price something for $200.00, and then give it away, well they just got $200 for FREE - AWESOME!! So my current plan of attack is have 3 pricing tiers that all costs money. Then as of now, I'm in "beta" so I have this huge "sale" "this month only" where all users get "PLUS accounts FREE FOR LIFE!". And clearly right there, Plus accounts normally cost $100/yr, so I'm reasoning that a customer would derive more value from signing up than if I had just called the Plus plan "free" with a fat ass zero for the price. So in other words. Be a premium product so everyone understands you are worth something, and then have sales, and reasons to give those oh-so-valuable plans away. HTH

markbao 17y ago
Heh, I read about this tactic in the Yes! book. It's a great one. I think it'd be a great tactic to do for a short term marketing run, but labeling a Basic product as $30 a year BUT YOURS FREE!!!1one for the long term might not be so reputable, right? Thanks for your input!
- apsurd 17y ago
  Yeah, as a once-upon-a-time dreamhost customer, I was pretty annoyed to have paid $119 for a years hosting only to see that they discount it 98% every now and then. Definitely not a good feeling. I think what I'm thinking is more a long the lines of "actually" giving away a non-free plan. So whatever your entry level paid plan is, just lower it a little more, and then be prepared to charge money for it, but anytime you want to do a marketing push, give it away for free. So its not going to be like some secretly free plan. The whole point is to give something of value away for free. I think all customers would appreciate that. Lastly, I like how 37 signals has a lowly-advertised ass-basic free plan. It's still free, but they make it a point to really imply that "it aint all that great". I like this because it implicitly reminds every customer that deals with 37 signals that their product costs money for a reason. It's kind of like thinking about it backwards...why would I think this company is worth anything if they give everything away for free? Actually...thats EXACTLY what I think about dreamhost now. I have to say back in the days I thought dh was a good company because it was better than the godaddy account I came from. But I've come to realize they absolutely whore out their plans (98% wtf) and its literally at a direct cost to their full-paying customers.. (shared hosting) I am officially not a fan of dh and I am that burned enough to leave a negative comment about them in a public forum as I'm doing now ... Give your customers something of value!!

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Here's one idea im just shooting out there for the hell of it. Seriously, it might be absolutely retarded and just designate it as so with comments: Microtransactions. Give people x amount of free videos and x amount of free photo albums. After that, they pay for each one posted (something really small).

dpcan 17y ago
It's not all bad. You can buy "credits" and use them for whatever you want, even send them to other family members so they can post on your family page too without paying anything.
- jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
  hmm, really really interesting. kind of the pay by the drink model. the credits could be pooled for the entire family. eventually could be used for things such as virtual gifts. give credits for incentives such as inviting your family, sharing an item,etc. make credits purchasable in $5 packs and give a few for free to start.

DTrejo 17y ago

The Jones family name you use in your screenshots has some bad connotations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses

djm 17y ago

with regards to the decision you have to make about fremium/premium etc there is one thing I think you need to consider that I can't see anybody else here has mentioned. If a whole family sign up to your site and like it enough to use it they will probably become long term users. After all it would be a pain in the ass for them to try and collectively move to another service. With this in mind, if you go the premium route, it may be in your interests to consider offering a more substantial sign-up discount - a 21 day free trial wouldn't excite me to try out your product. Good luck in any case and keep HN up to date with how you guys are doing :)

joez 17y ago

Just a quick thought, the holiday season (Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Christmas Gifts) is when a lot digital cameras are sold (especially DSLRs this year). You might be able to get some traffic (premium) by writing a blog post on tips on taking family photos, different DSLR settings, poses to try, etc. This is my thought on how to target consumers who just bought/received a fancy camera and need a way to share the thousands of photos they took. That's the quality traffic you want. There might be other ways to target this group?